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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Lacero, Jan 13, 2006.
go crazy.Here's to the Crazy Ones
where was it... where was it...
somewhere i saw or read a piece about the remains of an old chinese ship being found in south america, chile perhaps. economist? frontline? i can't recall.
the gist was that it was pre-1492 and it gave weight to some who believe the chinese discovered america before columbus. still, there's that pesky leif eriksson thing...
Leif Leif Leif!
Weren't there people here already???
There's been a lot of chinese jade found in central and South America. Also the temple at Palenque has what could possibly be described as an asian influence.
This has already been covered by several books, the most seminal of which is perhaps Gavin Menzies' 1421, a fascinating study of Zheng He and his surveying and treasure fleets. There is even evidence of a battle between a Chinese colony on the Canadian coast and Greenlanders on the opposite shore! An amazing read. I read it about a year ago, and was greatly impressed. There's a whole website devoted to it:
Hmmm. The map's relatively accurate geography of Central America, and bays roughly corresponding to Hudson's Bay, Gulf of St. Lawrence and presumably the Fraser river, could only be got from a complete circumnavigation of North and South America (no Canal, boys). Not likely in 1418. But information readily available to the copyist in the 1700's.
why do you feel that's unlikely?
I would strongly recommend you read the book 1421 to which I posted a link above. Not only does it assert that Zheng He & Co circumnavigated the earth, mapped Antarctica's coastline and landed on the Australian coast, but that they made a northerly passage along the Siberian coast. There is much evidence to show this. Columbus is said to have used a map copied from one of the Chinese charts to navigate to the Caribbean.
And "Benjamin Franklin's Tower" is supposed to be of Chinese origin!
Where do you think they came from? Perhaps calling them "Indians" wasn't so wrong after all. But yeah, as mentioned, all CC discovered was the West Indies. There were people already there too, but since Europe didn't know about them, I guess they didn't exist. Even if the Chinese got here before that, and the Vikings before them, the fact still remains that somehow the Native Americans probably crossed over through the bridge that used to be between what is now Alaska and Russia, but we killed and bullied most of them, so we get to keep it.
I just wonder who they "discovered" when they got here.
The next thing you know, China will want to claim America as one of their own, citing that they discoverd America first.....
Why go through the pesky claims process when you can just pay cash? Like they already have.
And most historians think this is bunk. A quick google search comes up with this website as a starting point for those who might question some of these claims.
There is that tiny little point isn't there? "Discovered" just may not be the most appropriate word here.
Yeah, any of you guys heard of Vikings? Just a touch before these guys being debated here
interesting. but not surprising at all.
This is a really stupid discussion. Norwegian/Icelandic Vikings had at least one settlement going in America in the 11th century, after Leif Eiriksson (son of Eirik Raude who founded Norse settlements on Greenland) landed in North America (probably New Foundland) in 1000-1002...
As I said, I read it some time ago, before it had been at least partially debunked. Despite a rather unfortunate Graham Hancockesque tendency to include "evidence" which further research would have disproved, I still think the basic outline is fairly compelling. But then I was very keen on the Fingerprints of the Gods for a while, too, and that did turn out to be a bit of a crock of sh*t..
As long as you aren't keen on this guy, I've no problem.
skunk, I'm no expert on Menzies' claims, just trying to give the other side its proper respect. It is instructive that most Chinese historians dismiss his claims, when one would expect a certain amount of nationalism to push them to accept them.
Rest assured, Erik has never been Red.
Very good! Very good! On that note, it must be time for me to Leif.