Moving towards a full-blown Syrian war

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by yaxomoxay, Oct 11, 2016.

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  1. yaxomoxay macrumors 68020

    yaxomoxay

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    #1
    The UN security council is ready to approve a French draft of a resolution (document S/2016/846). Here the document in its entirety, please note bullet #9, which in diplomatese means "We don't recognize the authority of the current government, therefore we have a duty to replace it at any cost".

    United Nations
    Security Council

    Andorra, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Costa Rica, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Georgia, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Mexico, Monaco, Morocco, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Qatar, Romania, San Marino, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Turkey, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and United States of America: draft resolution

    The Security Council,

    Recalling its resolutions
    2042 (2012)
    2043 (2012)
    2118 (2013)
    2139 (2014)
    2165 (2014)
    2268 (2016)
    2175 (2014)
    2191 (2014)
    2209 (2015)
    2254 (2015)
    2258 (2015)

    and

    Reaffirming its strong commitment to the sovereignty, independence, unity and territorial integrity of Syria, and to the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations,

    Gravely distressed by the continued deterioration of the devastating humanitarian situation in Syria, and the fact that now more than 13.5 million people are in need of humanitarian assistance in Syria, and that about 6.1 million people are internally displaced (in addition to the half a million Palestinian refugees who had settled in Syria), several hundred thousands of people are suffering in besieged areas,

    Expressing outrage at the alarming number of civilian casualties caused by escalating level of violence and intensified campaigns, in recent days, of indiscriminate aerial bombings in Aleppo and recalling in this regard the statements made on 25th September by the Secretary -General’s Special Envoy for Syria, Staffan de Mistura, reporting a situation in eastern Aleppo that “deteriorates to new heights of horror”, as well as by Under -Secretary -General for Humanitarian Affairs and Emergency Relief Coordinator, Stephen O’Brien, on 29th September, reporting a situation of “now besieged eastern Aleppo”,

    Strongly condemning the increased terrorist attacks resulting in numerous casualties and destruction carried out by the control of Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIL, also known as Da’esh), Al Nusrah Front (ANF) and all other
    individuals, groups, undertakings and entities associated with Al Qaeda or ISIL (also known as Daesh), and other terrorist groups, as designated by the Security Council, and reiterating its call on all parties to commit to putting an end to terrorist acts perpetrated by such organizations and individuals while reaffirming that terrorism in all its forms constitutes one of the most serious threats to international peace and security, and that any acts of terrorism are criminal and unjustifiable, regardless of their motivation, wherever, whenever, and by whomsoever committed,

    Gravely concerned at the lack of effective implementation of its resolutions , , and and recalling in this regard the legal obligations of all parties under international humanitarian law and international human rights law, as well as all the relevant decisions of the Security Council, including by ceasing all attacks against civilians and civilian objects, including those involving attacks on schools, medical facilities and the deliberate interruptions of water supply, the indiscriminate use of weapons, including artillery, barrel bombs and air strikes, indiscriminate shelling by mortars, car bombs, suicide attacks and tunnel bombs, as well as the use of starvation of civilians as a method of combat, including by the besiegement of populated areas, and the widespread use of torture, ill -treatment, arbitrary executions, extrajudicial killings, enforced disappearances, sexual and gender -based violence, as well as all grave violations and abuses committed against children,

    2139 (2014)

    2165 (2014)

    2191 (2014)

    2258 (2016)

    Taking note of the decision of the Secretary -General to establish an internal United Nations Board of Inquiry on the incident involving bombing of a United Nations -Syrian Arab Red Crescent relief operation to Urum al -Kubra, Syria, on 19 September 2016, urging all parties concerned to cooperate fully with the Board and underlining the importance of completing the investigation without delay with a view to hold the perpetrators accountable,

    Strongly condemning the widespread violations and abuses of human rights and violations of international humanitarian law, stressing the need to end impunity for these violations and abuses, and re -emphasizing in this regard the need that those who have committed or are otherwise responsible for such violations and abuses in Syria must be brought to justice,

    Emphasizing that the humanitarian and human rights situation in Syria continues to constitute a threat to peace and security in the region, and will continue to deteriorate further in the absence of a political solution to the crisis, and stressing in this regard that there is no military solution to the conflict in Syria,

    Reaffirming its intent, expressed in its resolution to take further measures in the event of non -compliance with this resolution or resolutions , and ,

    2258 (2015)

    2139

    (2014)

    2165 (2014)

    2191 (2014)

    Taking note of the efforts undertaken in the framework of the International Syria Support Group to implement a cessation of hostilities in Syria and to facilitate humanitarian access and assistance, and recalling its resolution 2268 urging all Member States, especially members of the International Syria Support Group, to support efforts to create conditions for a durable and lasting ceasefire,

    Recalling that Member States are obligated under Article 25 of the Charter of the United Nations to accept and carry out the Council’s decisions,

    1. Demands that all parties to the Syrian conflict, in particular the Syrian authorities, immediately comply with their obligations under international humanitarian law and international human rights law as applicable, including with respect to all besieged and hard -to -reach areas, and fully and immediately implement all the provisions of Security Council resolutions ,

    2139 (2014)

    2165

    , and , and recalls that those violations and abuses committed in Syria that may amount to war crimes and crimes against humanity shall not go unpunished;

    (2014)

    2191 (2014)

    2199 (2015)

    2254 (2015)

    2258 (2015)

    2268 (2016)

    2. Urges immediate implementation of the cessation of hostilities as well as immediate, safe and unhindered humanitarian access throughout Syria;

    3. Demands that all parties immediately end all aerial bombardments of and military flights over Aleppo city;

    4. Calls on all parties to prevent material and financial support from reaching individuals, groups, undertakings and entities associated with Al Qaeda or ISIL (also known as Daesh), and other terrorist groups, as designated by the Security Council, and urges members of the International Syria Support Group to dissuade any party from fighting in collaboration with them;

    5. Underlines the need for an enhanced monitoring of the respect of the cessation of hostilities under the supervision of the United Nations, requests the Secretary -General to propose options to this effect, with a view to a swift implementation, and encourages all member States, especially the members of the International Syria Support Group, to increase their contribution to the information of the monitoring mechanism;

    6. Demands all parties to comply with United Nations and their implementing partners requests for humanitarian access including by observing the cessation of hostilities as described in resolution , and ending all bombardments of and military flights over Aleppo city, in order to facilitate safe and unhindered humanitarian access including to all of Aleppo by the United Nations and their implementing partners, recognizing this requires a sustained absence of violence as determined sufficient by the United Nations and their implementing partners to allow humanitarian assistance;

    2268 (2016)

    7. Underlines that humanitarian access should be to the full number of people in need as identified by the United Nations and their implementing partners, with the full spectrum of humanitarian assistance as determined by the United Nations and their implementing partners, and evacuation of urgent medical cases should be facilitated by all sides based solely on urgency and need;

    8. Requests further the Secretary -General to report to the Council on the implementation of this resolution, by all parties to the Syrian domestic conflict, every two weeks;

    9. Reiterates that the only sustainable solution to the current crisis in Syria is through an inclusive and Syrian -led political process that meets the legitimate aspirations of the Syrian people, with a view to full implementation of the Geneva Communiqué of 30 June 2012 as endorsed by resolution , including through the establishment of an inclusive transitional governing body with full executive powers, which shall be formed on the basis of mutual consent while
    ensuring continuity of governmental institutions, as well as full implementation of resolutions and ;

    2254 (2015)

    2268 (2016)

    10. Expresses in this regard its fullest support for the Special Envoy’s efforts towards a full implementation of resolution and urges all parties to the Syrian domestic conflict to cooperate constructively and in good faith with the Special Envoy to this end, especially with a view to immediately address the situation in Aleppo;

    2254 (2015)

    11. Expresses its intent to take further measures under the Charter of the United Nations in the event of non -compliance with this resolution by any party to the Syrian domestic conflict;

    12. Decides to remain actively seized of the matter.
     
  2. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #2
    Isn't it nice that the US can use the UN to get the regime change it wants?

    I'm really tired of this ********. Hopefully Russia will veto. We're (the public) sleep walking into a world war (you can bet article 5 of NATO is going to be invoked the second someone does something stupid in Syria) without a care in the world.
     
  3. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #3
    Keep electing trigger happy idiots to office. Clinton is a freaking moron
     
  4. yaxomoxay thread starter macrumors 68020

    yaxomoxay

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    #4
    Well, the call to a just and mighty war is all there, in bullet #9.
     
  5. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #5
    IMG_6145.JPG
    Liberals will say it's for "humanitarian " reasons. Obama/Clinton should be able to bomb any nation as they see fit no matter the outcome. Just look at the 1000's dead and millions displaced in Libya to see just how well things work
     
  6. rdowns macrumors Penryn

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  7. yaxomoxay thread starter macrumors 68020

    yaxomoxay

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    #7
    Well, yeah, the whole preamble is about 'humanitarian' reasons to act and condemn. It's so good that they know what the Syrian people want and need.
     
  8. twietee, Oct 11, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2016

    twietee macrumors 603

    twietee

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    #8
    Can we agree that a "conservative" war between two souvereign nations is less and less occuring world wide but instead you have "civil" wars or wars on ideologies more brutal and intensive as ever before?

    I can understand a stance that says: we don't want to get involved so let's stay outta there but I also can understand one that says: we can't let that happen because of humanitarian reasons. This is war we are talking about so there is no black/white and most likely every decision taken is a bad one. What is your take on the Ukraine? Is it ok to invade other countries as long as you don't directly are involved? Where does it end - only when you are directly compromised? Wouldn't that be too late eventually / would have lost your allies long before? Of course I'm relieved there wasn't a full blown war over the Ukraine - but I don't see this getting straightened out by other means so it also represents a major step back to say the least. To bad we don't have any ukrainians roaming the MR PRSI - I'd like to hear their opinion.

    During the Kosovo war, western countries got called out for standing at the sidelines watching people getting massacred. I say they get rightfully called out for that and evetnually should get investigated.

    As for WWIII - that'd only happen if both parties want that. Syria would have little to do with it ultimately. I don't see why anybody would want a full blown up WWIII (see above: no "conservative" wars anymore) though.
     
  9. yaxomoxay thread starter macrumors 68020

    yaxomoxay

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    #9
    Ask yourself, why Syria and not the other genocides (I think they're currently 8). Clue: Russia. Second clue: Proxy War.
    Assad is taking care of ISIL, with the help of Russia.
    As soon as the US does anything more serious than giving a few guns to a few rebels, the war will expand (Syria is already blaming Jordan, through official channels), and it will become a proxy war on two fronts (vs. Russia/Syria coalition and vs. Daesh). No, at this time I am not willing to sacrifice thousands of american lives and probably millions of Syrian/Jordanian/Turkish/Russian/etc. lives when there's already a government who's taking care of the most urgent issue (Daesh).
     
  10. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #10
    You're right. "Human Rights" is the new R2P (responsibility to protect), a catch all term used selectively to invade where US corporate, financial, and geopolitical interests dictate.

    “Humanitarian Intervention:” A New Cover Story
     
  11. stroked Suspended

    stroked

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    #11
    I wish we had a strong competent person running for president.
     
  12. twietee macrumors 603

    twietee

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    #12
    Why is Russia so keen on supporting Assad? Because of humanitarian reasons? Turks have their very own agenda over there too: Kurds. They all committed atrocoties: can we agree? It's a complete mess and not because of Obama / the US - although they definitely own to that mess as well.

    Do you believe Assad and the Russians and the Turks were only bombing Isis? To my understanding Turks let Isis grow to a good amount - I think the easiest route to join that holy war was through turkish borders. Only after Isis started terrorizing Turkey itself did taht change. Aleppo? Is that even a Isis stronghold? I think not.

    As I said before I can understand anybody saying: "I don't want to get involved." But ultimately that won't make the world a better place just as well. I dodged the military without a doubt, would always do so again, but also acknowledge that it was (IMO) the very right thing to intervene during the Kosovo war for example.
     
  13. subsonix macrumors 68040

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    #13
    This whole mess started with a public uprise against Assad.
     
  14. twietee macrumors 603

    twietee

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    Also to my understanding ISIS goes way back to Iraq and the failure that war was. That'S where they got strong (financially, PR, (US-)weapons, territory) and relevant. So regarding US-politics, that goes back to good ol' W. Since that was a major failure on all accounts the US understandably wanted to tone down their engagements in the ME but left also a bloody vacuum a lot of players took interests in.
     
  15. stroked Suspended

    stroked

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    #15
    With US encouragement.
     
  16. twietee macrumors 603

    twietee

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    #16
    Are you saying the whole Arab spring is an US invention? I think you take too much credit for yourself. Overall that thing was ripe, so to say, authoritarian regimes can only sustain for a limited time - especially within a globalized world.
     
  17. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/15/world/15aid.html?_r=0

    It is standard practice for the US to fund opposition groups years in advance of actual uprisings to sow the seeds of Regime Change. Lets stop pretending we don't take years long actions to destabilize governments.

    Obviously we stoke preexisting tensions (and greatly add to them), but we can't claim full credit. Though anytime you see a longstanding former ally of the US getting toppled....you can bet there is some covert action taking place on behalf of the US through official agencies or their proxies (such as the NED (National Endowment for Democracy) or the Project on Middle East Democracy amongst many many others).
     
  18. stroked Suspended

    stroked

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    Credit no, some of the blame yes. Authoritarian regimes seems to be the only thing that works over there.
     
  19. yaxomoxay thread starter macrumors 68020

    yaxomoxay

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    #19
    It's not a US invention. It's pushed, therefore made bigger than what it is, by the US. There's some sentiment, and that sentiment is exploited.
    Similar to what JFK did in Chile financing the anti-Allende sentiments, which then spawned the actions that the guy on my avatar green lighted a decade later.
     
  20. twietee, Oct 11, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2016

    twietee macrumors 603

    twietee

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    #20
    From your source:
    "But some members of the activist groups complained in interviews that the United States was hypocritical for helping them at the same time that it was supporting the governments they sought to change.

    “While we appreciated the training we received through the NGOs sponsored by the U.S. government, and it did help us in our struggles, we are also aware that the same government also trained the state security investigative service, which was responsible for the harassment and jailing of many of us,” said Mr. Fathy, the Egyptian activist."

    Btw. that training of NGOs was "where they were taught to use social networking and mobile technologies to promote democracy. Among those sponsoring the meeting were Facebook, Google, MTV, Columbia Law School and the State Department.". I do not have a problem with that. Do you?

    So again: no black/white. Did the western public/governments openly support the Arap Spring? Well yes of course! But that support only went so far, there were Arabs on the streets fighting for their ideas - no western military.

    I could ask some critical thinking and vocal Iranian colleagues of my mother that left their country years ago why the tortured bodies of their brothers (who stayed because their mother was too old to move) were dumbed next to a police station and I can easily see why they eventually would fight (for) their own country. Those things happend throughout history - heck, even before America was even founded.
     
  21. zin Suspended

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    #21
    Hopefully Russia will veto the resolution. And the Chinese. What a sad day to have to rely on the Russians and Chinese.
     
  22. lowendlinux Contributor

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    #22
    Tartus and the Med, they need that port to project power.
     
  23. yaxomoxay thread starter macrumors 68020

    yaxomoxay

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    #23
    UPDATE: Russia voted no (veto power), and Venezuela voted no.
    China abstained.

    However, the political implication is all there. Ready for the long proxy war.:(
     
  24. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #24
    Of course it's not black and white, that's not how power works. If you can co-opt grassroots insurgencies you don't have to have an explicit hand helping shape the outcome. Almost every single one of the organizations listed in the article are corporate slanted think tanks...think about that for a bit when considering the USA is an oligarchy.
     
  25. lowendlinux Contributor

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    #25
    Puty wants a cold war not a hot one, he needs someone to blame not body bags
     

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