Mueller's report looks bad for Obama (you can select more than one response on poll)

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by jkcerda, Apr 19, 2019.

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did obama fail?

  1. yes, he did not know what he was doing

    9 vote(s)
    29.0%
  2. no, 150k in russian ads on facebook did not have any effect on the outcome

    2 vote(s)
    6.5%
  3. go to hell midget.

    25 vote(s)
    80.6%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #1
    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/04/19/...3GTxFZQPnVsTBtqT4aIgklmiVCMAzB74Q8zVO4EWwK3x0
    yes & no + go to hell for me :p
     
  2. mgguy macrumors 6502

    mgguy

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  3. Solver macrumors 6502a

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    #3
    At least have a trial first. America is not one of those accused are assumed guilty, social vengeance countries.
     
  4. Krayzkat Suspended

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    #4
    So Obama secretly plotted with Putin to make a Trump win? Wow this show keeps getting crazier and crazier.

    Obama = Littlefinger
     
  5. Zenithal macrumors G3

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    #5
    It falls onto McConnell for strong arming 44. That little **** ought to lose in 2020.
     
  6. mgguy, Apr 19, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2019

    mgguy macrumors 6502

    mgguy

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    #6
    Sorry. I lost my head. My enthusiasm got the best of me. Thanks for schooling me. :rolleyes::p
     
  7. LizKat macrumors 601

    LizKat

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    #7
    We'd be in a different world today if ol' Mitch had lost in 2008, that's for sure. Or even in 2014.

    Even if McConnell does lose his Senate seat in 2020, the GOP may still hold the Senate. John Cornyn had to relinquish the whip post to John Thune because of their self imposed six-year limit on holding a given leadership post.

    Either Cornyn or Thune could end up the party's next floor leader I suppose. I wouldn't regard either one of them as a major improvement over McConnell but then I'm not a Republican.

    I used to respect McConnell --he has shifted far to the right from his once moderate positions on a lot of issues-- for at least having a clear sense of national obligation on some issues. But that's gone now after his escapades blocking Obama's every other breath, and I don't know how Cornyn or Thune either would deal on stuff like debt ceiling hikes and budget reconciliation leadership.

    Thune has had some sensible suggestions in the past, like that bill to let employers kick in towards reduction of student debt, and interest in renewable energy (although he was talking about ethanol and wind, and South Dakota, his state, has lots of corn and lots of wind). But then he turned around and backed some bill for states having a fuel crisis to waive all manner of safe transport regulations on fossil fuels, so... what is a fuel crisis? [having no place to export your shale to this month, so why not ship it to Massachusetts, which has already said no thank you?]

    Cornyn... pretty much dyed-in-wool current R platform. More sane than Trump on immigration. He has made some gaffes that have gone viral. Compared to Trump his unfortunate statements are more amusing or just not well thought out how they'd sound, and so kinda dumb, like those of either of the Bush boyz once in awhile. More to the amusing side sometimes than the vicious stuff that comes off Trump's Twitter line. He's not married to the hard right by any means and sometimes they get up in his face, but he's unlikely to face a serious primary challenge in 2020 and probably going to be re-elected in 2020. If he's not, then Beto's hot breath on Ted Cruz's neck was not just some infatuation, may rather have been indicative of an earlier shift in Texas politics than most people anticipate. If Cornyn wins big then he'll probably be the Majority Leader if Mitch loses and the Senate stays red.

    Mitch doesn't plan on losin' though, eh? Polls earlier didn't look so great but the season is young. As polls shift against Mitch he has a tendency to go with the flow and marry up with the platform he used to campaign against... relying on fundraising to elevate his already high name recognition and drown out the protests of his co-opted opponent. This time it's likely to be Amy McGrath. She's getting a lot of support but I wouldn't bet against Mitch even if I'm tempted to butt into Kentucky's affairs and send a buck to Amy...

    Look up Terri Gross' interview on NPR of Alec McGillis sometime. He's the author of "The Cynic: the political education of Mitch McConnell." He has a bit in the interview where he summarizes Mitch's ability not to waffle but to metamorphose on issues over time, always in the direction advantageous to his next election.

    It's about reframing issues as being "not for this, which I can't quite support, but for something more sensible and practical, yeah this other thing, I could be persuade of its merits -- where the something else always becomes the next thing he can't quite be for, since now he's for a new something else that could make a lot of sense...​

    And that's how we got a Mitch McConnell who at one time was against PAC reform but could surely see reining in soft money if we wanted to discuss that reform... but then when McCain-Feingold got around to tackling soft money, Mitch was on to well that's not the problem, it's non-disclosure that's the problem, we just need to know who's giving the money, come talk to me when you understand that and we can work together. Hence we've finally arrived at Citizens United... and now dark money is all over the place in surreptitious support of Mr. Citizen Corporation, an invented archetype of political humanity marinated in newly discovered free speech rights and also incidentally entitled to some... yeah... privacy.

    I voted "go to hell midget" and so I don't regard my post as off topic... :)
     
  8. mudslag macrumors regular

    mudslag

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    #8
    lol talk about shifting blame. Even Trump can't be blamed for Russia wanting him over Clinton. No one even knew how deep this rabbit hole went til this last year or so.
     
  9. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #9
    You are reading things that are not there in any way shape or form
    --- Post Merged, Apr 19, 2019 ---
    That just means Obama was weak & worthless s
     
  10. LizKat macrumors 601

    LizKat

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    #10
    We still don't know. Consider the HOM (harm to ongoing matter) redactions from Mueller's report. No one should really assume anything about them even if many seem associated to details of the Russian contacts more than to the issue of the President's behavior in particular with respect to any alleged obstruction of justice.

    There is at least one such item in a part of volume II that refers to the president's conduct towards Flynn, Manafort and a third party redacted as HOM, with the entire report on related conduct of the President to that third party also redacted as HOM (volume II, J.3 page 128).
    --- Post Merged, Apr 19, 2019 ---
    Setting aside your sarcasm indicator if that's what it was: No it means McConnell had migrated from a person who in the past had shown some concern for the public interest into someone concerned almost solely with winning next cycle elections.

    Of course that does not make him unique especially these days, but it speaks poorly of the principles of a Senate Majority Leader, arguably the most influential single individual in the Congressional branch of government, even as compared to the Speaker of the House.

    After all, he can prevent the Senate even taking up a bill passed by the "house of the people". But suddenly he's all focused on just one thing: take down Obama by making him a one term prez. OK no it was two things: and meanwhile block all Obama's stuff. This after Obama had just racked up 52% of the pop vote with a 10 million vote margin, and carried 28 states in the electoral college. One man deciding a party's four-year outlook for leading America's interests in the United States Senate, and choosing to focus his work solely on defeating a popular president and any policies he might implement.

    Trump is bad news because he's so incompetent and selfish, but McConnell is worse news in a way, because he's an enabler of nearly anyone who will help his party retain political power despite the waning demographics that underwrite the GOP's platform today, and no matter if it looks as cynical as it is. I say "nearly anyone" because at least McConnell has drawn a few lines, like urging withdrawal of support for Roy Moore in the Alabama special election for the Senate. By that I'm meaning to damn him with faint praise, yes.
     
  11. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #11
    I can't vote. There's no "give me your grandmother's recipes and go to hell, midget" option. :p

    BL.
     
  12. A.Goldberg macrumors 68020

    A.Goldberg

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    #12
    How about the media being held publicly responsible for electing Trump. I’m not saying they committed a crime or are the only ones responsible, but a little recognition would be nice. I believe if they didn’t run their networks like a reality show, giving the most attention to the candidate who created the most attention for himself and provided the most entertainment, we probably wouldn’t be in this situation with him as POTUS to begin with.

    They spent all this time pondering how he got elected and blaming the Russians, but they were largely responsible this whole time. It’s like that awful cliche of someone going on an epic journey searching for something only to find the answer was within them the entire time.

    All that said, it’s awful Obama apparently didn’t make much effort to deal with attempts of Russian influence. It’s just as bad, if not worse, that Trump refuses to even recognize the problem. In his narcissism it seems he feels if he admits the Russians even tried to interfere it ruins the legitimacy of his win. It’s a strange world we live in.
     
  13. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    #13
    I think the Obama administration knew what the Russians were doing but thought (1) it was only $150K in advertising, it won't matter that much; (2) Hillary is going to win anyway so it doesn't matter.
     
  14. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #14
    Oh, how soon we forget!

    Obama looks bad for not doing enough to warn the country about Russia using Wikileaks and fake social media to meddle in the 2016 election.

    Is that the premise we're pushing here?

    Because I remember being told, in no uncertain terms, that Wikileaks was all about transparency and saving the planet.
     
  15. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #15
    Love Wikileaks
     
  16. LizKat macrumors 601

    LizKat

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    #16
    I'd rather see a straightforward presentation of material to a mainstream outlet, not some odd go-between or cutout that can obscure not only sources but agendas.

    In the best of all worlds I'd rather we lived in a world where classified info stayed classified for good enough reason but then got declassified (perhaps in redacted form) by its owners more promptly.

    But that's not the world we live in... so I accept that I'm going to be unhappy about some leaks and at least fascinated by the info released in others

    It's possible to be ambivalent about unauthorized info releases: grateful to have the info but disapproving of how they were brought to light (e.g. Snowden, Manning) and the collateral damage that unauthorized disclosure may have wrought.
     
  17. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #17
    ALL US mainstream outlets are crap. Good night
     
  18. LizKat macrumors 601

    LizKat

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    #18
    "Here endeth the jkcerda lesson...?" OK then.. g'night! :p

    EDIT: You are too young to remember the Pentagon Papers landing in the WaPo.
     
  19. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #19
    And Wikileaks is your hero.

    Great.

    Here's an idea: Want to know what your local city council is planning on doing? How its planning on spending your property taxes. How it's funding the police department or the school system? Ditto for the State Government. Is the Governor supporting - or opposing - proposed firearm legislation? How about your local MLB team? What are their pennant chances this year?

    How about that new restaurant that's opened up across town? What's the food like? How much is dinner for you and your wife going to cost?

    Try going to Wikileaks for that sort of information. You won't find it.

    You need "mainstream media outlets". You don't have to agree with every editorial opinion they publish. But if you want to know if the Dodgers win their game at the Brewers later today - you can be 100% guaranteed that the LA Times and KNBC will give you the correct outcome and score.
     
  20. DearthnVader macrumors 6502a

    DearthnVader

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    #20
    I'll play devils advocate here, Obama pretty much had his hands tied, there just wasn't that much he could do to stop Russian election meddling.

    I mean, we already have sanctions on them, that's what made us a target in the first place.

    Obama couldn't really control who buys ads on Facebook.

    Sure, in hindsight, there are some things he could have done, but it was a fluid situation, and I still don't think we have a full grasp of the extent and means of Russian influence.
     
  21. RichardMZhlubb Contributor

    RichardMZhlubb

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    #21
    You folks are aware that the author of the linked opinion piece is a guy who used to work for McConnell, right? This is simply an exercise in deflecting responsibility away from McConnell, where it belongs. You can argue that Obama should have ignored McConnell’s threats and gone public with the information about the Russian hacks, but you cannot absolve McConnell of responsibility.

    I’ll also note my continuing irritation at how those seeking to downplay the significance of the Russian crimes keep pretending that all the Russians did was post a bunch of Facebook ads.
     
  22. Bug-Creator macrumors 6502a

    Bug-Creator

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    #22
    That and also in a political way, if he had cried wolf without having hard proof the right would have been all over him claiming HE was meddling on Hillary's behalf.
     
  23. DearthnVader macrumors 6502a

    DearthnVader

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    #23
    That's true, I think that played into it, he did't want to be seen as putting his finger on the scale for his party.
     
  24. linuxcooldude macrumors 68020

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    #24
    It doesn't help when the Obama administration was acting like Russia were our best buddies. Uranium one deal gave our nations nuclear assets to Russia. Hilarys "reset button." Susan Rice, then the National Security Advisor told the White House to "Stand Down" when they wanted to retaliate against Russia.

    But once Trump became the primary Presidential candidate, now Russia is a big problem, so let's investigate the Trump/Russia collusion.

    I wonder why no one investigates the Obama/Russia collusion thats been going on for 8 years?
     
  25. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #25
    I think you are forgetting your history.

    Vladimir Putin's Russia had been a growing problem for some time before Trump became the Republican nominee. There was the Russia annexation of Crimea and proxy-war in Ukraine. There was the shoot-down of the Malaysian Air Airbus.

    Russia annexed Crime in February-March of 2014. A full year before Trump entered the Presidential race.
     

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