Muhammad Ali - R.I.P. [PRSI offshoot]

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Belgique, Jun 4, 2016.

  1. Belgique macrumors member

    Belgique

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    #1
    Many of you do not remember or were not alive when he refused to fight Nixon's war in Vietnam....he was savagely attacked by Conservative media as a traitor and worse......it went on and on and one...similar to attacks on Obama and H. Clinton......in the end Ali was right about the war and 58,000 American men died for nothing....if you own Polk Audio speakers...they were made in Vietnam....at the time Conservatives like Henry Kissinger said if we don't defeat them in Vietnam....they will be in California......taking over the US...based on results...how did that prediction turn out????
     
  2. Scepticalscribe, Jun 4, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016

    Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #2
    Muhammad Ali was an astonishingly gifted boxer, who boxed with elegance and grace, a big man who was light on his feet, (that famous dancing shuffle); as a boxer he had speed, and a devastatingly lethal combination of force and applied power. He made boxing look as though pugilism was - or could be - an art form.

    But it is not just as one of the greatest boxers ever that Ali will be remembered. Other things come to mind. How he helped redefine and extend the public role of what an athlete, or boxer, or sportsman, could say, or may, or may not, consider offering opinions on.

    As a sportsman, well before he became a public figure in the 'political sense', Ali had redefined the whole idea of how to promote one's image, and did it with a cheeky and cocky wit, (and yes, sometimes a punishing and insulting one, if directed at future opponents in the ring). But this was in a world where sportsmen were legendarily taciturn, some because they lacked language, or confidence or education, many because they came from poor backgrounds, some, like many blacks, because they came from backgrounds where others were encouraged to speak for them when microphones were produced.

    Ali changed all that; with his elegant and flamboyant appearance on the scene, the idea of the sportsman (or sportswoman) as personality, - as well as someone who was a sports performer - began to gain a wider currency, and public acceptance.

    He will also be remembered as a role model, and not just as a stylish, articulate, accomplished young black man - at a time when there were not all that many stylish, confident, articulate - and yes, attractive - black men for black men to wish to admire and look up to.

    Subsequent to that, there was the courage of his moral position which led to a political stance against the Vietnam war, - refusing to respond to and report for the draft - for which he paid a considerable price in career terms, as he was stripped both of his world heavyweight title (as a result of a political decision, not a sporting one), as well as of his boxing license, - an outrageous ban which was applied US wide - and was thus unable to fight for four years - and this at the time in his career - his mid to late 20s - when he could have have expected to have been at his prime physically and at the zenith of his career professionally.

    It is, of course, interesting that he had been denied conscientious objector's status when he sought it.

    Initially unpopular, Muhammad Ali's stance on the Vietnam War - and his long drawn out legal battle against his conviction for refusing the draft (culminating in a unanimous victory in the Supreme Court in 1971) - became far more widely accepted the longer the war - itself increasingly unpopular - became. Indeed, Ali became a most unexpected guest at university meetings and a sort of symbol for counter-cultural values.

    Tonight, I read a retweet of a retweet which referred with graceless - but clearly deliberate offence - to the death of Cassius Clay. More than half a century after he sought to be addressed as Muhammad Ali, the fact that there are still some who don't 'get it' is rather disappointing.

    Even in Islam, Ali went on a considerable journey, starting out, as a young man, as an awestruck acolyte of Malcolm X, and arriving at a version of Islam akin to Sufism by late middle age.

    This guy was a class act: As a man, sportsman (remember he won a gold medal at the Rome Olympics in 1960, and no mention of doping), superlative and dashing boxer who fought with flair and grace and lethal execution, who redefined what it was to be a sportsman with a public role, who redefined what it was to be a black sportsman with a public role, as a role model, an American, and yes, an American Muslim.

    Not just that but the courage and dignity with which he faced his long decline when he suffered from Parkinson disease also striking: Who can forget the powerful and incredibly moving effort - the almost superhuman (mental) strength and fortitude - the worldwide audience almost willing him on - it took to wield the Olympic torch in his shaking and trembling hands to light that Olympic torch in Atlanta in 1996? Those very same hands which, as instruments of powerful and lethally aimed punched menace had once felled Sonny Liston and many others?

    That, too, served as a role model not just for how to try to cope with such conditions, but also to bring discussion of such conditions into the public arena; yet again, he proved himself to be someone who showed the way for others to subsequently walk.

    Once again, RIP Muhammad Ali.
     
  3. balamw Moderator

    balamw

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    #3
    MOD NOTE: Thread split from Current Events to enable discussion of Ali's Political, Religious and Social impact.

    B
     
  4. ThisBougieLife macrumors 65816

    ThisBougieLife

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    #4
    No, I wasn't born until 1998, but I'm fascinated by the Vietnam War era and I've studied it extensively, and that includes Muhammad Ali. I admire what he did, in refusing to fight in the ultimate "pointless war". And he put his career on the line for it as well. Even though I've never been that interested in boxing, I will admire him for his political stance and his principles. RIP
     
  5. grahamperrin macrumors 601

    grahamperrin

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    #5
    I was born in 1965.

    I can find no video footage of the Brut commercial from my early childhood.

    Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee,
    The great smell of Brut and the punch of Ali​

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p00nxzvw/the-frost-interview-muhammad-ali
    – interviewed by David Frost in 1974, this is new to me.


    – interviewed by Michael Parkinson, first broadcast when I was sixteen. I have vague memories of this.

    "… Some people can see farther than others. …"​

    I was probably in my thirties when I first saw, framed as a large poster, the awesome photograph of Cassius Clay underwater:

    [​IMG]
    http://www.aliunderwater.com/history.htm

    I wasn't aware of Ali's conscientious objection until today. May he rest in peace.
     
  6. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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  7. jkcerda, Jun 5, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016

    jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #7
    Im sorry. But HOW are the attacks that happened on Ali it at anyway similar to any attacks on Obama or Hillary? Both Obama and Hillary can't mow problems with Warsaw it's a completely flawed comparison in my honest opinion
     
  8. SHNXX macrumors 68000

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    #8
    I've read some quotes from him saying some racist things.
    I guess I'm too young to appreciate what's so special about this guy's achievements.
     
  9. Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #9
    Well, then, you're probably too young to appreciate the achievements of the Buddha, or - let us say - Christ, as well. Youth, unencumbered by the weight of knowledge or lived experience is a wonderfully carefree existence, I agree.

    Re Muhammad Ali, perhaps you should just open the sports page, and read an obit written by a literate sports journalist.

    But, here are a few things to ponder: World heavy weight boxing champion (three times); Olympic gold medal winner at 18; charismatic and articulate sportsperson, and an inspirational role model for young black men; the paradox of a boxer who was a pacifist; and much more....
     
  10. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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  11. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #11
    oh please, that implies no white people fought.
     
  12. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #12
    He didn't say that they didn't fight, did he?

    EDIT: it is also interesting to note that someone who was white that was also supposed to fight didn't, and became a future POTUS, while Ali, who refused, went to jail.

    BL.
     
  13. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #13
    hence the word IMPLIES.
    right now you have BLACK people (Obama) sending white people to fight brown people .
     
  14. Meister Suspended

    Meister

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    #14
    It's a disgrace to abuse Ali's reputation to advertise Obama and Clinton.

    They both started various wars.
     
  15. Raid macrumors 68020

    Raid

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    #15
    Well his comment was based around race, while it could imply that "no white people fought" I believe the "white people" he was talking about were the people in power.

    Yeah he couldn't get in the coast guard and not show up for duty.

    There were others who noticed inequity in the draft too.
     
  16. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #16
    While CCR shot the silver bullet, Fogerty backed up that bullet with the wooden stake:

    BL.
     
  17. SHNXX macrumors 68000

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    #17
    I guess I'm not much of a hero worshipper.
    No, my opinions of Buddha and Jesus aren't too great either, especially because it's not entirely clear that one of them existed at all.
    At best, he was a real person who was suffering from mental illness (thinking you are god's son qualifies), and at worst he was a fictional character inspired by combining various son of God mythologies, whose teachings and tales are all made up.
     
  18. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #18
    Fogerty was CCR. Wrote the songs, sang, and played lead guitar on the road and many of the instruments in the studio. The other three were basically a touring band.
     
  19. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #19
    No argument there. though I will have to say that the lawsuit he faced in the 80s was farcically hilarious.. Getting sued by his then (and now, though under new ownership) record label, because "his music sounded like CCR". :confused:

    BL.
     
  20. stylinexpat macrumors 6502a

    stylinexpat

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  21. Snoopy4, Jun 11, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2016

    Snoopy4 macrumors 6502a

    Snoopy4

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    #21
    Nixons war? I think you mean Kennedy's war. Maybe Johnson too.

    --- Post Merged, Jun 11, 2016 ---
    Well, some dude thinks it was Nixons war, so it's clear there is some revisionist history at play.
     

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