Muller investigation, it has begun! First the Russians

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by PracticalMac, Feb 16, 2018.

  1. PracticalMac, Feb 16, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018

    PracticalMac macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #1
    Muller indites Russian entities

    Indictment of 13 Russian nationals and three Russian entities, accusing them of interfering in U.S. elections, Bloomberg News reports

    Edit add (samcraig): Here is TheHill news report
    Edit add2 (rjohnstone): Full indictment.... https://www.justice.gov/file/1035477/download

    Not surprising by itself, it is where it will lead is the juice.


    New add:
    I find this part from statement damning:
    So, YES, there was a conspiracy!
    Only question, how much did Trump Campaign know was going on?
    And before anyone says Trump Camp was clueless, think about how it looks that they did not know this was happening?? It is like being in a house while the bedroom is being robbed.

    14:24 CT added:
    Here is example of the tricks mentioned in report used to create unrest. Report about 2 internet sites postings that are nearly exactly same, but with key words changed to change the focus.
     
  2. samcraig macrumors P6

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    #2
    I just read that. I would update the headline to be more descriptive. I thought this was an old thread ;)
     
  3. juanm macrumors 68000

    juanm

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    #4
    Whaddabout her email server? Is it going to be indicted too?
     
  4. PracticalMac thread starter macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #6
    Ok
     
  5. rjohnstone macrumors 68040

    rjohnstone

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    #7
  6. weckart macrumors 601

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    #8
    Just confirms that Putin's aim is to destabilise the US rather than have a compliant president and that he clearly has found a useful idiot, whom he can count on to act divisively at every opportunity.
     
  7. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #9
    It is.

    And here's the thing: Many Trump supporters and apologists act as if the "Russian meddling in the 2016 election" story is just made up. Fake News. etc. You'll see this notion peddled on Fox News and elsewhere.

    But it's obviously not.

    And the reality that the Trump people seem to overlook is this: The Russians are not your friends. The Russians really don't a crap about abortion, or gun rights, or immigration, or tax rates, or the deficit, or whatever it is you think Donald Trump is upholding. The Russians only care about fomenting US divisiveness.

    The organized Pro-Trump rallies. They organized anti-Trump rallies.

    Think about that. And then think about the wisdom of accepting the word of a guy who says the Russians didn't meddle in our elections at all.
     
  8. PracticalMac thread starter macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #10
    Not really. This has been mentioned a few times in past, the efforts to damage the US political system as a whole.

    Thing is, this is after the election, and it may just as well be establish connections for future attacks by earning friends and connections.

    I would be more interested in reading of direct efforts to help Clinton win.
     
  9. samcraig macrumors P6

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    #11
    Also - the Right can stop blaming Soros for everything. Unless they want to start a conspiracy that Soros funded the Russians.
     
  10. Rogifan macrumors Core

    Rogifan

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    #12
    Rosenstein says there is nothing in this indictment that Americans knowingly cooperated with Russians or that the outcome of the election was impacted. FayI, CNN and every other MSM outlet frothing at the mounth over this. You still don’t have a smoking gun that shows collusion between Trump and the Russians or that Russian interference actually changed votes. My Twitter feed is full of journalists trying to spin this any way they can as meddling on behalf of Trump. You’d think they’d at least try to appear objective.
     
  11. samcraig macrumors P6

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    #13
    The investigation is still going. Nothing is for certain. Why don't we take this one story at a time.
     
  12. PracticalMac thread starter macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #14
    Here is a analysis of political web sites that seem to be created by same people, but play to radical opposites.

    Muller simply verified what is suspected.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 16, 2018 ---
    Revenge for being vilified by Trump?

    Still, poor journalism. Don't be a Trump.
     
  13. samcraig macrumors P6

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    #15
    I think the more important issue here is how Trump and the WH will respond with this. Will they condemn Russian interference or will Trump undermine the investigation further.

    This is yet another moment of truth for Trump to weigh in and I'm betting on a fail.
     
  14. Rogifan macrumors Core

    Rogifan

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    #16
    Tell that to CNN and others who definitely are jumping to conclusions. Also if this started in 2014 what was the Obama administration doing to prevent it? The Chinese OPM hack happened on his watch too. Where was the outrage over that by CNN, MSNBC, Washington Post, NY Times etc.
     
  15. PracticalMac thread starter macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #17
    Twitter storm incoming, and a bad one.
     
  16. samcraig macrumors P6

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    #18
    Who knows. Perhaps it was too early to make determinations and that's why there were investigations, etc. Who among the press knew what in 2014? Step outside the outrage at the press for a moment and perhaps focus on the fact that it's more than just theory now. It's more than speculation. It's not just about Hillary's server.
     
  17. Rogifan macrumors Core

    Rogifan

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    #19
    My guess is because Rosenstein said this indictment does not allege any American knowingly working with the Russians or that it impacted the outcome of the election the WH will find a way to spin it. I’ve always said it would be near impossible to prove that anyone voted a certain way or flipped their vote because of a fake meme on Facebook or a hashtag on Twitter. Also at this point we have zero evidence anyone tampered with voting machines. So it’s more likely Hillary lost because she was a bad candidate who ran a terrible campaign than because of Russian interference. But this is a new shiny object for the cable news networks to cover breathlessly all weekend. Sorry Florida. You got day.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 16, 2018 ---
    I never doubted that Russia was messing around. But I do doubt anyone will be able to prove that they actually changed votes. So yes we need to stop them from being able to meddle in the future but sorry Trump was legitimately elected and isn’t going anywhere (and I say this as someone who cannot stand Trump and didn’t vote for him).
     
  18. samcraig macrumors P6

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    #20
    You might not be able to prove influence. But it's hard to deny that it's probable. Pro/Anti both candidates.

    I don't think anyone ever expected actual voter tampering. Except Trump believing there were 3M illegal votes.

    As I said - the investigation isn't over. What Rosenstein stated is as of today. That doesn't make it the reality of tomorrow.

    But yes, I am sure the WH will go on and on about how this vindicates Trump and his associates. I'm not sure it does. Yet.

    Further - it's entirely possible (and I've said this early on) - it's likely not any collusion that will sink Trump. It will be obstruction and/or something else like his finances that will be his downfall.
     
  19. Plutonius macrumors 604

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    #21
    I think most (if not all) people have agreed for some time that Russia and most other countries meddle in our elections (I'm not sure Trump agrees yet :) ).

    What Trump supporters disagree with is that

    - The Trump organization including Trump actively colluded with Russia. Detractors will bring up the different indictments against some former Trump people but none of them are for active collusion with Russia.

    - That the final election results were changed because of the Russians.
     
  20. ThisIsNotMe Suspended

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    #22
  21. Plutonius macrumors 604

    Plutonius

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    #23
    I wonder if the US has been doing the same to other countries ?
     
  22. TonyC28 macrumors 65816

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    #24
    So does this basically say they were just screwing with the US and Trump came out on top?
     
  23. bradl macrumors 68040

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    #25
    QFT. No-one said that this is the be all/end all of the investigation. So this defense is already on very weak, shaky ground. And seeing that charges have already been laid and plea bargains taken on issues surrounding this conspiracy, It is a safe bet to say that we are not done yet.

    BL.
     

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378 February 16, 2018