Music Store loses my business

Discussion in 'Mac Apps and Mac App Store' started by coolsoldier, May 27, 2003.

  1. coolsoldier macrumors 6502

    Jan 7, 2003
    The 909
    My dad recently tried to download a song from iTMS, finished, and then, the next day, tried to move the file to his computer at work (where they still use OS 9) and (of course) couldn't. Here's to the mistake that every single DRM system so far (including Apple's) has made...people want the same flexibility with the songs they pay for online that they get with the songs they get from CD's or from LimeWire/Gnutella/Kazaa/OpenNap, etc.

    Now, here's the part where they lose my business. My dad (who pretty well represents a "normal" computer user) has vowed never to buy another song off of iTunes. And I won't either, not out of principle or out of hatred for DRM or any of that, but because this is a pretty good indication that iTMS will eventually die. And when that happens I don't want to be stuck with music files that I can't "Authorize" (Face it, Apple's not very good about backwards-compatibility)

    Anyway, Sorry Apple--Nice try, you came close. Goodbye.

    edit: spelling
  2. mnkeybsness macrumors 68030


    Jun 25, 2001
    Moneyapolis, Minnesota
    dude i don't really see what your problem is. you can still burn the song/songs from the computer downloaded to, and then bring it on to the os 9 computer. sure it's a little bit of a hassle, but come on, at least it's legal.
  3. hugemullens macrumors 6502a


    Dec 15, 2002
    He probley didnt think of that. DRM is a hassle but atleast the songs are legal, and of good quality with a good connection speed. itunes has my bussiness for a long time to come.
  4. pEZ macrumors 6502

    Feb 2, 2003
    Madison, Wisconsin
    Funny, my Mac-illiterate dad thinks the iTunes Music Store is the best thing since the invention of the compact disc.
  5. zimv20 macrumors 601


    Jul 18, 2002
    Re: Music Store loses my business

    of course not. the music store offers AAC files playable only on AAC-enabled devices and software.

    itunes4 doesn't run on os9. ergo, no music store files on os9.

    don't blame apple, your dad should blame himself. user error.
  6. coolsoldier thread starter macrumors 6502

    Jan 7, 2003
    The 909
    None of the specifics really matter all that much. The average user doesn't care what the technical specs are, or even what the quality is. My dad wanted to go legal, but it turned out to be more of a hassle than illegal, so he went back to LimeWire. He didn't care what the format was, all he cared about was that he couldn't listen to it on his OS9 system, where he listened to his LimeWire downloads. He's not going to put up with workarounds for a system that won't even let him "Convert to MP3...". And I can understand his annoyance at paying for a song that will only work on macs that are connected to the internet with itunes 4 and quicktime 6.2. Legal or not, the average user will not pay for something that is more of a hassle than going the illegal way. And the average user doesn't use a state-of-the-art system. A lot of businesses still

    As for me, I think that if the average user isn't behind it it will die fast (once everyone's done experimenting with it) and I don't want to be invested in it when that happens. So, when I go back to college next semester, I'll be using LimeWire, not iTMS. I'm not really into piracy, and if they can give me a product that's better (i.e. it can actually be used on the older computers that make up the majority of systems out there) i'll use it, but people are not going to put up with a commercial product that's less satisfactory than a bootleg, and like i said earlier, if people aren't going to get behind it, it will die, and if that's the case, i'll steer clear of it.
  7. mkubal macrumors 6502a

    Jul 22, 2002
    Weren't you aware when you downloaded and installed the new Quicktime and iTunes that it was OS X only. Don't you realize that the only way Apple could create the music store was if they agreed to use digital rights management and that this go-around of the music store was just a test to see if it would work.

    Wether Mac users like it or not Apple is moving to OS X. If they kept supporting OS 9 why would anyone ever move to the new operating system. I'm not saying that your father should have to move to X, but at the same time you can't expect Apple to continue support for something that they consider dead. (When was the last OS 9 update)

    As for you expecting the service to fail, consider that they sold 2 million songs in 16 days (I think that's right). And that was with the small market share that Apple has, but they're working on a Windows version right now that will surely experience an equal level of success.

  8. zimv20 macrumors 601


    Jul 18, 2002
    iow, "waaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!"

    it's still user error.
  9. snahabed macrumors regular


    Sep 14, 2002
    New York, NY
    I am insulted by the insinuation that an "average user" is a flaming retard. Did this "average user" just start buying things willy nilly without inquiring about the file type? Ignorance is not an excuse for an "average person" to break a law, nor is it an excuse for having a hissy fit about a song file that won't play on a horribly outdated OS.

    Anyone who uses OS 9 in 2003 deserves all the pain and suffering he gets.

    Meanwhile, even a "below average user" could burn a bloody CD and rip it in an archaic OS 9 computer. A 2 year old could do this. The problem is SO not with iTMS.
  10. mactastic macrumors 68040


    Apr 24, 2003
    Hey, buy your dad an iPod for fathers day. You will be the best kid ever if you fix his music file fomat problems.
  11. jxyama macrumors 68040


    Apr 3, 2003
    you are subjecting yourself to being flamed if you turn "I am not using [iTMS] because of such and such" into "I am not using [iTMS] and it's going to fail miserably because of such and such."

    you shouldn't make a broad statement about a service/computer/etc. based on your personal bad experience. it's ok to complain and let others know of the shortcoming. that's just sharing knowledge. but to project your experience beyond that is rather proposterous.

    for every one person having a difficult time with it, like you, there must be 10 others (if not more) who are very happy with what they got. otherwise, the service would have been gone by now.

    while i sympathize with your trouble and wish it would have worked out for you, even if it *might* be your fault, the reason you are getting flamed is because you are making a general statement about something when it's really not appropriate.
  12. iAlan macrumors 65816


    Dec 11, 2002
    Location: Location:
    I am one of many Apple OS X users who can't even download from iTMS because I am not in America (or do not have a credit card registered in America)

    Get over the fact your father is having trouble with the file formats on OS 9. Even Microsoft is not supporting older versions of it's software - or even thinking forward for that matter.

    Respect the fact Apple is making an effort and understand the level of complexity involved in geting iTMS off the ground in the first place.

    We have all grown so complacent that we expect everything to be 'perfect' and fit our needs exactly. No industry can do that, but Apple at least is looking for common factors that push the envelope and give most of us what we need...I just need iTMS download access!!

  13. coolsoldier thread starter macrumors 6502

    Jan 7, 2003
    The 909
    First, I apologize for being somewhat incoherent in my posts last night. I was not "at my best" Sorry.

    Anyway, I have a few points to make/reinforce:
    ?"User Error" doesn't make much sense. Softare is designed for the user, not the other way around. If user error was an acceptable excuse, why aren't we all using command line interfaces with 8-digit numeric codes? Once you knew all the codes, you could work quite efficiently (sarcasm alert)
    ?Many businesses and schools have not yet moved to OS X, and the users have no control over this.
    ?The main problem with the iTunes file my father had was not that the file itself wouldn't play under OS 9. It was that it couldn't be converted to a format that would (unlike every other song file he's ever used, so I personally think it was appropriate to assume that he would (as with CD's) be able to convert his file to MP3.
    ?I believe (here we go again) that more and more users will get turned off as the lack of flexibility with the songs they've purchased limits their ability to deal with unforseen circumstances (owning more than three computers, having computers that run windows or OS 9, Having computers without internet access, etc.)

    Maybe I'm underestimating Apple, but I seriously doubt that their DRM "phone home" mechanism will continue to work if the service fails...

    But if you like the service and haven't been screwed yet, by all means, rock on!:)
  14. zimv20 macrumors 601


    Jul 18, 2002
    it's the term that (at least some of) us consultants use when something goes wrong but there isn't anything in the s/w to fix.

    e.g. where i work, one of the users wasn't getting her outlook express email. i had her show me how she retrieved email. she wasn't doing anything (at all), she just expected the email to show up. i showed her which button to push. user error.
  15. jxyama macrumors 68040


    Apr 3, 2003
    again, "user error" in this case is probably appropriate. would user error be a wrong description if, say, someone bought a PC software and complained that it doesn't work on a Mac?

    if you've read anything about the way iTMS works, you would have realized that they specifically forbid conversion of AAC to MP3, without loss of quality. this was done to prevent these songs from being shared P2P.

    iTMS is a new medium of song distribution. you cannot assume that you will be able to do everything the same way as buying CDs... if you wanted that... you should go buy the CD.

    as for points such as having more than three computers or supporting OS 9, you need to understand the economics. it just doesn't make sense for Apple to cater to the minority (or what it hopes to become a minority) at significant expense.

    again, if you happen to not fit the description of typical users iTMS is targeting, you can complain all you want. but don't tie that into the success of the service. one atypical user does not determine the success of a service; majority typical users do.
  16. rainman::|:| macrumors 603


    Feb 2, 2002
    i *totally* hate it when companies improve their products and services... who cares what the "new" "standard" format is, i want to stay with MP3, dammit. even tho it's inferior.

    Your dad has not upgraded to use the latest technology. All computers need to be updated, bitching and moaning about it will only annoy us :rolleyes:

    you are allowed to transfer the song to 3 macs... it's not apple's fault if people's computers cannot play the file format.

  17. superfunkomatic macrumors regular

    Jan 6, 2003
    calgary, ab canada
    this is a case of faulty logic.
    if you can't figure out how to stop your VCR clock from flashing 12:00 all day is that a bug in the system, or have they created a bad product. probably not.

    everybody is a beginner once. so read the manuals do some research, know what you are getting yourself into - then do it. seems pretty straight forward.

    and average user is an ugly term, does that mean lowest common denominator - there are plenty of "old" people 60-70-80s that can operate a computer and use these services.

    be informed.
  18. coolfactor macrumors 68040

    Jul 29, 2002
    Vancouver, BC CANADA
    it's okay

    It's okay, darling. We forgive you for your ignorance. I'm sure by now you're kicking yourself for stepping out into a pasture that you thought was filled with quiet, cud-chewing cattle, only to be trampled by the herd.

    I'm a Canadian, so I have not yet had the pleasure of trying out the iTMS, and I can't wait to do so. Right now, though, I'm stuck on an old 160Mhz Performa while my iBook is in the shop. I'll tell ya... this is painful.

    OS X has revolutionized my whole world. Sure, it took some adjustment time, but once I got through that (a week), it was smooth sailing.

    Let's talk about the good things in our lives rather than ranting and raving about the minor, often temporary, inconveniences that come along.
  19. mymemory macrumors 68020


    May 9, 2001
    Sorry, I had to do it.

    Attached Files:

  20. Gymnut macrumors 68000


    Apr 18, 2003
  21. Raiwong macrumors member

    Apr 7, 2003
    Mac Communities are like a nation coolsoldier. Its like america, your freedom to speak will just be welcomed by both educated or idiotic prejudice bombardment of strong one sided beliefs and nobody will care wither your comments makes sense or not you'll be flamed anyway. If you search for in these forums anybody who have expressed their views agasint Apple have been burned to hell.

    Going back to the topic. I understand not everyone can afford OS X, and yes i'm sure you have the money to buy an overpriced ipod for your dad (sarcasm)

    OS9 and OSX has always cause comptability troubles, but then don't draw conclusions so quickly. Just because you had a tiny problem you come to say that iTunes Store will fail, just as I think ITMS is likely to get raped by competitors, I don't make a statement like this in the public its just stupid.

    In any case there is nothing WE can do about your dad, the only solution is to upgrade or just burn a CD. Your complaining here will do nothing but piss you off. I will side with the rest of the people and say you are expecting up to date software comptability with out dated software.

    As a note someone said microsoft never updates their old systems, but I point out that you can run most programs on windows 95 prefect backward comptability.

    E.G in our case Apple's our nation
  22. eyelikeart Moderator emeritus


    Jan 2, 2001
    Metairie, LA
    u know..I read that entire rant...and it seems like this guy has more of a problem reasoning for himself than anything else... :rolleyes:

    Here's what I don't understand. U must access the iTunes Music Store through iTunes 4, which only runs in OS X. Didn't it say that OS X is a must to be able to play these files to begin with?!
  23. AppleMatt macrumors 68000


    Mar 17, 2003
    I've sped-read this, so sorry if it's been mentioned, but re-ripping files reduces their quality further.

    I don't want in on the argument though, thanks.


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