Muslim activists raise over $70,000 to aid vandalized Jewish cemetery

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by jkcerda, Feb 22, 2017.

  1. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #1
    http://abcnews.go.com/US/muslim-act...-vandalized-jewish-cemetery/story?id=45651684
    that is pretty cool.
     
  2. AlliFlowers Contributor

    AlliFlowers

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    #2
    Because they empathize. They understand what is like to wear those shoes.

    Do you think such a show of support will come from wealthy white Christians?
     
  3. 0007776 Suspended

    0007776

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    #3
    Since the need has been met in this case no, but yes they do despite whatever stereotypes you want to use.
     
  4. MacAndMic macrumors 6502

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    #4
    Who is to say the those funding the crowd source aren't wealthy white Christians.

    I am White, Wealthy and raised Christian and am offended by your post.
     
  5. AlliFlowers Contributor

    AlliFlowers

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    #5
    I'm talking about making the show off support. Not a response to someone else. Kinda like Trump only denouncing the act three days later, after her been cajoled to do so by pretty much everyone.

    Offended? Really? Good. Your first taste of what it's like to be a minority in America. Stick around, I know some great Christian jokes.
     
  6. MacAndMic macrumors 6502

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    #6
    First. Heck no! Why do you think Trump got elected. We are tired of of being called racists when the only thing we do is go to work, pay taxes and enjoy the limited time we get with our family.
     
  7. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #7
    Are you suggesting that there are no wealthy Muslims?

    And yes wealthy white Christians make billions in donations every year believe it or not.
     
  8. 0007776 Suspended

    0007776

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    #8
    Attitudes like that do more than any other single thing to make sure that it takes as long as possible for everyone to get equal treatment. If I'm a rich white Christian and someone says it's good that I'm discriminated against and stereotyped what is my motivation to treat the person who is different from me well instead of sticking with the people who are like me?
     
  9. Septembersrain Contributor

    Septembersrain

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    #9
    That's a really good point. I wonder if subconsciously people are judgemental. Like they don't realize they are being biased while trying to be unbiased?
     
  10. A.Goldberg macrumors 68020

    A.Goldberg

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    #10
    That's very cool. I've always found most Jews and Muslims get along just fine.

    I heard a thing on NPR about Jewish communities helping acclimate Musllm refugees/immigrants in Boston. Also a very cool project. Make people feell welcome and there's probably less terrorism.
     
  11. AlliFlowers Contributor

    AlliFlowers

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    #11
    It has nothing to do with wealth. It has more to do with the superior Christian attitude I've met with my entire life. And yes, when met with that it does cause me to react in kind. I'm not talking about prejudice, but a bias that comes from being treated poorly to start with. And I truly believe this is something white Christians cannot empathize with, because they've never experienced it. Rich or poor.

     
  12. samcraig macrumors P6

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    #12
    Here you go: #90
     
  13. BeefCake 15 macrumors 65816

    BeefCake 15

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    #13
    Historically speaking Jews and Muslims got along well throughout many eras. Overall, Jews were treated best under Muslim rule than other societies throughout history.
     
  14. Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #14
    Great thread, @jkcerda - wonderful gesture - and a most interesting discussion.

    Might I recommend a little less offence and a little more thought.

    Candidly, I think it is a little more nuanced that either of you have written.

    Certainly, the unconscious (and sometimes conscious) prejudice and values that come with being from the 'dominant' or 'privileged' groups (in terms of a combination of class, gender, race, ethnicity) do exist, and it is silly to pretend that they don't.

    Conversely, those who are the 'other' (different colour, religion, gender, class) to the dominant group are viewed - again, often unconsciously, or sub-consciously - and, worse, sometimes very consciously - as of lesser value or worth, and become used to that, and see it for what it is.

    Of course, some wealthy white Christian individuals donate to charity, but a great many don't, and, if your entire society is predicated on the idea of reinforcing and consolidating and justifying your already considerable privilege and advantages, it is more likely that these individuals will develop a sense of contemptuous entitlement rather than any sense of empathetic awareness.

    Where I disagree a little with @AlliFlowers is that empathy can be learned and taught; sensitive and intelligent parents - even from privileged groups of people - can raise kids to be aware of injustice, and unfairness, and to question the sort of attitudes and values that allow for it to be accepted, perpetuated and rooted in the very structures of the society.
     
  15. AlliFlowers Contributor

    AlliFlowers

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    #15
    I don't disagree with this. It just doesn't happen often enough. Too often children grow up to espouse the same beliefs that they got from their parents. And they're not always positive. And you assume the parents will teach their offspring to be better than they themselves are, socially.
     
  16. yaxomoxay macrumors 68020

    yaxomoxay

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    #16
    Wealthy White Christians show support to many good things.
    As Wealthy Black Christians.
    As Wealthy Asian Buddhists.
    And so on.

    Just yesterday morning I personally held in my hands a $35,000 check by a "White Wealthy Christian" that want to remain anonymous. That check is going to buy school supplies, books, and tools for minorities that can't afford them.

    We also found a wallet in an office a couple of days ago. Owner a member of a minority I won't disclose. $100 cash in it. We called the person, and the person said to the municipal employee "just send me the documents and the wallet, donate the $100 to the foundation for people with disabilities."

    There are all sort of good people out there, of any race, creed, and backgrounds, willing to help or donate for many different reasons.

    Your post is awful, I am sorry to say.
     
  17. arkitect macrumors 603

    arkitect

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    #17
    Not to go off on a tangent, but:
    And vice versa!
    I suspect many parents these days are exposed to different attitudes and values through their teenagers and older children.
    Hopefully making them reconsider their own "hardwiring".

    A very good thing, IMHO.
     
  18. Scepticalscribe, Feb 23, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2017

    Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #18
    Oh, yes, absolutely, - completely agree - and a very well made point.

    Indeed, it is one of the things I miss most about teaching - in that while I taught the students I also learned an awful lot from them, not least student slang, the way young people thought, what bothered them and what motivated them - it was very refreshing, and certainly served to help keep my mind "young in outlook", or younger in outlook than it might otherwise have been.

    And yes, I remember the day at the lunch table around twenty years ago, when my brother and I described a (corrupt) politician whom we both loathed as "a complete wanker" and how my mother - not having heard the expression before - blinked and asked us what that word meant. Bravely, my brother stared at his plate, temporarily deaf, leaving it to me to explain what the word meant both literally and metaphorically (which I did briskly and clearly).

    "Oh," said my mother, somewhat astonished. "I see," and carried on with her lunch.
     
  19. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 604

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    #19

    I wouldn't go that far. But I will ruffle some feathers and note that the word "Liberals" is not being thrown around. Cause it's most likely not the conservatives that are the majority of the donors.
     
  20. Scepticalscribe, Feb 23, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2017

    Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #20
    Agreed.

    Parents can teach the kids that their privilege is justified, or they can male them aware of injustice and unfairness and teach them to question the values and structures of the society they live in.

    Some years ago, - for a few years - I helped out with two local charities (the Hospice, and another, a cancer charity) - occasionally with collections and such like and was stupefied at the staggering class differences in responses. It was something that I had not given much consideration to, prior to that.

    There was almost - not entirely, but almost - an absolute correlation between the perceived status of an individual and whether they chose to donate or not. The very well off rarely donated.

    Basically, very well dressed people, hardly ever donated, and accelerated - and lengthened - their stride - marching briskly away whenever they saw any of us out collecting.

    Nevertheless, the less well off frequently did donate, - and so did ordinary people. And young people, in fairness, and students, were usually open-handed and optimistic and generous.

    However, most impressive of all were some of the mothers - ordinary working class mothers, and indeed, ordinary middle class mothers, who would bend down with their children, explain what the collection was about, and why they were choosing to donate to it. They would then proceed to give money to the kids. The gravity and pride and sense of responsibility of the kids - some of them very young - when walking over to me to deposit the money to my box was very revealing, and very rewarding. It didn't take much imagination to see those kids as teenagers and young adults themselves, also now made aware of such things, and transmitting such values, in turn, to their own families.
     
  21. yaxomoxay macrumors 68020

    yaxomoxay

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    #21
    And has it ever occurred to you that different people donate in different ways and for different reasons? Maybe all the people that didn't donate to you their $5 had just donated $150 via wire transfer to another charity. Or, they donated their valuable time. Or maybe they just didn't trust your charity over the one they had in their mind.
    Seriously, where does this classism of yours comes from?
     
  22. Scepticalscribe, Feb 23, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2017

    Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #22
    A little defensive, are we? Very tetchy post, in response to a personal anecdote.

    Anyway, while it is a personal anecdote, to offer some context to proceedings, this was in my home town, I know the class structure, the people, and the context. And I found the experience extraordinarily revealing.

    Besides, I value my time - I will not work with, or for - even for free - anyone I do not respect.

    And, to be honest, no, the people who didn't donate, were not the kind to donate time or money or goodwill to anything that did not yield something of benefit to them. Their body language and arrogance was very revealing. You can tell a lot about a person by the way they decline your request. It is possible to decline such requests politely - even apologetically. Candidly, I doubt there is a charitable bone in someone who is rude to those collecting for a well respected local charity.

    Anyway, it was interesting for me as I had not considered class in a personal context before - and I am from a solidly middle class background, but raised by what this forum might view as "liberals", people who recognised unfairness, especially entrenched structural unfairness, and who would vote to change it, and sometimes donate their time and - more often - money to causes they deemed worthy. Both my parents did that, and I am glad of it.

    In any case, as the charity in question was the local hospice - which has flawless books and is exceptionally highly regarded in the locality - my involvement was personal, they had been exemplary when my father was dying of cancer, and are exemplary now, while my mother is in the final stages of advanced dementia - and I wanted to give something back.

    Actually, I agree with - broadly - with this observation.

    This is because those who are 'liberal' tend to have been raised with a more open, and generous approach to life - they accept difference rather than fearing or condemning it.

    In turn, that leads to a more generous approach to the less well off, or a sense that victims are not (above all, not always) to blame - for this distress in which their life circumstances may leave them. And, eventually, this may also find an expression in political preference, too.

    Myself, I vote left not because I "follow Marx"; even though I have taught political philosophy, (including Marx), I couldn't give two hoots about the esoteric details as a guide to life in his writings, although some of his analysis is worth noting. Rather, I vote left because I don't like unfairness - least of all structural unfairness - and I vote for those who represent a world view that thinks we should try to build a better, fairer, more generous, more equal and inclusive society.
     
  23. ucfgrad93, Feb 23, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2017

    ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    #23
    Agreed, that is pretty generous.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 23, 2017 ---
    That is a pretty broad brush you are painting with. Way too many assumptions.
     
  24. 0007776 Suspended

    0007776

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    #24
    Or you know instead of painting with such a broad brush you could look at the actual research out there and see that there is no real difference in the amount of giving between different political affiliations.

    I tend to be more liberal, but I know plenty of conservatives and the vast majority of them don't fit the stereotypes that people on here like to try to put on them.
     
  25. Scepticalscribe, Feb 23, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2017

    Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #25
    I will admit that I don't know - per se. However, I will add that - until I volunteered - this was not something I had given any thought to, and nor was it anything that I had much experience of.

    Nevertheless, I will add that in my personal experience, wealthy conservatives tend to be less generous, with time, money, support, and I will add to that my surprise at the brittle responses to what was merely a personal observation.

    As a teacher, I will add my personal observation that those from wealthy conservative backgrounds tended - not absolutely, but much of the time - to have been more selfish, more demanding of university support systems, and a lot less supportive of peers.

    However, that is merely my personal observation - I agree that one cannot necessarily extrapolate from that, but one can observe what one suspects may well be trends.

    Now, I accept that in the United States that there has been a sprit of philanthropy that may be lacking in Europe, where the state support systems tend to be somewhat stronger.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 23, 2017 ---
    Not when you have witnessed such discourteous, rude and arrogant behaviour. No, it is simply stating how these people behaved in that setting.
     

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