My 2¢ on 16" Macbook Pro Rumors & Speculation

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by SuprPwrUsr, Aug 2, 2019.

  1. SuprPwrUsr macrumors newbie

    SuprPwrUsr

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2019
    #1
    I threw together a video detailing my thoughts on the recent rumors of the 16" Macbook Pro. Back in May when the 2019 Macbook Pro 15" was updated, a buddy of mine in the know told me to hold off on the purchase and if I were in the market for a high end macbook pro, "just wait a few months and you'll see". He wouldn't give me any details other than it'd come in above the current 15" MBP and said it might be worth the wait. It wasn't what we haven't seen already on the rumor sites but it was good to hear from a different source.



    TL : DW Some of my predictions:
    16" MBP will co-exist with current 13" & 15" MBP
    16" MBP will slot in above current 15" MBP in price.
    Xeon E-2286M Processor turbo boost up to 5Ghz with ECC Memory
    Redesign of cooling solution - Slightly Thicker
    More IO ports, (Personal wish for a return of a UHS II SD card slot)
    16.1 to 16.4" Screen
    3072 x 1920 resolution LED LCD (No OLED or Mini LED yet)
     
  2. niray9 macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2019
    #3
    What'll be the additional delta on price is the key Question for me, i.e. performance/$ or Value?
     
  3. SuprPwrUsr, Aug 2, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2019

    SuprPwrUsr thread starter macrumors newbie

    SuprPwrUsr

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2019
    #4
    I think the new Mac Pro proves that Apple is willing to push price up to deliver “Pro” features. Apple is willing to charge $6,000 for a 8 core 256gb sad and rx580. Now, granted the platform of the Mac Pro is very expensive and the tooling cost and projected sales volumes are pushing the price up, we can probably assume the MacBook Pro “Pro” can be just as expensive if they’re really chasing after the same “Pro” market. Especially if they’re not plannning on killing off the current 15”. Like $4000+ expensive.
     
  4. ruslan120 macrumors 6502

    ruslan120

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2009
    #5
    Do you think they'll add mobile Xeons and better thermals? A true Pro machine to justify the price?

    I think Regular Mac -> Regular CPU, Pro Mac -> Xeon CPU would make sense. And then dropping the "Pro" name from the current lineup.
     
  5. SuprPwrUsr thread starter macrumors newbie

    SuprPwrUsr

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    Feb 18, 2019
    #6
    That's pretty much precisely what I think they'll do for this new machine as I explained in the video. Intel bins the xeon chips slightly more rigorously so it'll use less power. Apple has had great success undervolting the 8 core 2019 MBP 15 CPUs to run cooler than the 2018 version so I think the Xeons will help.

    That said, do I think it will actually "justify" the price? Probably not. The suggest MSRP of the Xeon 2286M is $623 while the 9980HK is 583. Will this new system be just $40 dollars more than the current offerings? Yeah right.

    The Macintosh "Pro" market with Xeons & ECC memory has been a conundrum for me. Very few programs really benefit from the fact that the processors are Xeons or ECC support. Is cosmic radiation really that likely to corrupt whatever you're working on that you absolutely need ECC memory? Will a 2286M perform that differently from a 9980HK?

    Probably not really.
     
  6. Falhófnir macrumors 68040

    Falhófnir

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2017
    #7
    Spec for spec it will probably be reasonably in line with the existing 15" - it'll just start out with higher specs. For e.g. the base model may be:

    i9/16GB/Vega 16/1TB for $3,499 - while the same spec 15" will currently cost you $3,349, so it's a $150 upcharge for the new screen and design, but as Apple make more profit on upgraded items, they will make more profit on the 'base' 16" than they do on the $2,399 base 15" until the design costs have amortised and the design fully supplants the 15" models.

    This is unless they do go the 'mobile iMac Pro' route, in which case the price will be more comparable to that machine than existing MBPs.
     
  7. pallymore macrumors regular

    pallymore

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2013
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    #8
    I wish they could be that reasonable - $150 for a screen & thermal update? It'd say with this spec it's going to be $3999 at least.

    And hey they need to get rid of those piles of 256GB SSDs as well so that's gonna be in the base config. :wink:

    The $6k Mac Pro comes with 256GB ssd, there is no way they'd offer 1TB in the base 16inch.
     
  8. Falhófnir macrumors 68040

    Falhófnir

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2017
    #9
    It depends on if this is the launch of the next gen MBP or they're creating a new lineup that sits above it. If it is the next gen MBP, they don't really have room to increase the price all that much more - but if it's going to be it's own thing then they can try to carve out their own market at whatever price they want.

    The iMac Pro starts at 1TB for the $5K it costs, it really depends on what type of SSD they're using. The Mac pro probably uses a more expensive enterprise grade drive than the MBPs, which are compiled from good but still consumer grade components.
     
  9. AppleHaterLover macrumors 68000

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    Jun 15, 2018
    #10
    It'll go from poor to very poor.
     
  10. MengkeMary macrumors member

    MengkeMary

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2019
    Location:
    Minneapolis
    #11
    If you didn't mention this, I even didn't know that the $6000 Mac Pro comes with 256GB. That's totally ridiculous!

    Honestly, I don't know what is in the mind of Apple. How come you cannot offer at least 1TB at the price point of $6000. I believe, they are still make a fortune out of every sold unit even with 1TB SSD. Why would they risk losing customers to do this?
     
  11. Howard2k macrumors 68020

    Howard2k

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2016
    #12
    The target for the Mac Pro isn’t someone with too much money who needs a fancy machine to brag about while s/he surfs the net. It’s actually designed for high end video work.

    I’d be amazed if those folks needed more than 256GB of internal storage. They’d be using external arrays, NAS, SAN, etc. Theses are actual professionals.
     
  12. Falhófnir macrumors 68040

    Falhófnir

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2017
    #13
    It is modular, so you can add all the storage you want. All the other components are what really beefs up the cost of the MP - ECC memory and Xeon are pricy components, it's possible the 256GB SSD is an enterprise grade component too, so will cost more per GB than the equivalent in the MBP. For the sort of projects this is likely to be deployed on, 256GB or 1TB will make little difference, they will need to be adding more anyway - and it's more cost effective to do it yourself. (and users likely won't want to share the computer's boot drive with project data).

    The iMac Pro comes with at least a 1TB drive, as you can't upgrade it; and I think it's past time Apple offered a stock MBP configuration with 1TB, so quite possible that's also what the 16" will come with.
     
  13. Glockworkorange macrumors 68000

    Glockworkorange

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2015
    Location:
    Chicago, Illinois
    #14
    I think this is accurate—-they’ll need to put Xeons & ECC memory in it to differentiate it and justify the price increase.

    If it’s just a larger display with the latest Intel processors, I don’t see why someone would want to fork over another grand. Most folks would just stick with the lest costly 15 incher.
     
  14. eulslix macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2016
    #15
    So what’s your take on this: will this new MBP be already in the new design of the upcoming generation of 2020? Or will it be a higher tier offering of the current generation, like the iMac pro?

    Because I’m really interested in the usability improvements that the next generation hopefully will bring. It would be a shame missing out on this opportunity if Apple decided that double Christmas is just too much of a fun
     
  15. SuprPwrUsr thread starter macrumors newbie

    SuprPwrUsr

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    Feb 18, 2019
    #16
    If I had to guess, I think we're gonna get this new 16" macbook pro at the end of 2019 and then when Intel releases Comet Lake H processors in Q2 2020, it'd be a perfect opportunity for Apple to refresh the 13/15" MBP with the new design language and perhaps a 14 inch laptop? Who knows, totally guessing here.
     
  16. dogslobber macrumors 68040

    dogslobber

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    Apple Campus, Cupertino CA
    #17
    Apple will price it uncontrollably as they know there's a market for it which is price inelastic. It's the people who are price sensitive that will find it hard to chew.
     
  17. Falhófnir macrumors 68040

    Falhófnir

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2017
    #18
    I still see two possibilities:

    Scenario 1 - it's just the next model of the 15" line, launching a year early in just a couple of high-spec configurations to capitalise on people who will pay more for 'new and shiny'. In this case it will basically be treated as a third stock model of the 15". It will be more expensive this year, but next year it will roll out to replace the 15" lineup entirely at similar prices to now.

    Scenario 2 - it's basically unrelated to the present MBPs, even if it shares a name. In this case it won't eventually need to supersede the existing 15" so it could be priced at whatever level they want, and probably close to (if not more than, as mobile components are often more expensive than desktop ones) iMac Pro pricing. Expect mobile Xeon, ECC memory, 1TB SSD, more IO (?) etc.
     
  18. Glockworkorange macrumors 68000

    Glockworkorange

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    Feb 10, 2015
    Location:
    Chicago, Illinois
    #19
    I think that’s accurate—-it’s one of those two and my bet is it’s the latter.
     
  19. ApplesandOranges macrumors regular

    ApplesandOranges

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    Jul 27, 2019
    #20
    So Apple is releasing a Pro computer because their Pro computers aren't actually Pro enough to be called Pro?
     
  20. eulslix macrumors regular

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    Dec 4, 2016
    #21
    Interesting. Well I wouldn’t mind either option as long as the user friendliness of the next generation trickles down to the 16”. I was never a fan of the “real pros don’t need..” mentality and neither was apple so far. Good user experience doesn’t end with the users experience
     
  21. Ries macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2007
    #22
    I will take a 28w 16" icelake with oled, lte, scissors, face id, 16gb ram and 1TB disk and no crap bar.
     
  22. eulslix macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2016
    #23
    Thats the point: The crapbar is a crapbar because it was advertised as the crapbar. An abonimation, child to both marketing and product design decisions. The idea itself isn't bad, it just lacks focus. Just like the whole MBP line, being positioned as a luxury media consumption device and a creative workhorse at the same time.

    Bottom line: I hope Apple doesn't abandon innovation in the interaction department. I'm not buying Apple to get raw performance (that's where the competition will always shine brighter), I'm buying Apple for the best compromise fitting a professional mobile workflow.
     
  23. ApplesandOranges macrumors regular

    ApplesandOranges

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    Jul 27, 2019
    #24
    Have you actually used the Touch Bar? Did the person you responded to use the Touch Bar? My guess is no. I used it and it works great for me. Are we really that closed minded?
     
  24. eulslix, Aug 5, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2019

    eulslix macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2016
    #25
    I „used“ the touchbar over the course of 2 years. What I didn’t mention is that I actually was a huge fan of the idea from the very beginning. I really tried to make it work for a couple of months, but ultimately I gave up and saw no utility in it other than occasionally making a CTA easier to reach.

    The problems with the touchbar are manyfolded: It lacks both feedforward and feedback within the action cycle. Latter can be solved with haptic feedback, but I don’t know whether the former is solvable at all. So far the only solution I see is to make the TouchBar out of physical keys, which loops back to the whole idea of making a keyboard out of OLED screencaps. Other than that we‘re talking about future technology way out of reach for now.
    The next problem is the inconsistencies in contextual behavior. Sometimes the touchbar sticks with the same actions over a ridiculously huge scope, making it basically useless since it only exposes actions that people already know well through shortcuts. Other times it would jump on seemingly irrelevant occasions into a new state, making it even harder to memorize the patterns than learn the shortcuts in the first place.

    The problems that the touchbar tries to solve are 1) accessibility of features hidden behind shortcuts and 2) bringing touch intuitiveness into controls with value ranges. The touchbar tackles the latter problem acceptably, would profit from a bigger screen area though for stuff like color pickers.
    It doesn’t solve the first problem at all though, which is, as I assume, the main value of it. And that’s because of the lack of muscle memory. See, all the issues I mentioned before — feedforward, feedback, predictability — make it basically impossible to memorize the patterns and execute them reliably. For productivity, all what matters is what’s in your brain. Your subconsciousness then communicates your intents through your body to the device. But since that’s impossible, you end up wasting cognitive resources on repetitive ********. Therefore, you’re better of learning the keyboard shortcuts in the first place.
    That leaves the touchbar with only two usable areas: 1) Sliders and 2) Actions that you very rarely use and don’t know of. And since the touchbars uselessness makes you ignore it in the first place, you might not even notice the second use case.

    On top of all of that, beyond being of not much use, the touchbar triggers at least 10 times a day accidentally, because the force threshold of triggering it is basically 0, contrary to a traditional key. I don’t know how often I pressed escape or Siri on accident, making me swear because it took me out of my flow. It takes like a good 10 seconds to get back into the zone again. Over time, that sums up..

    I didn’t even go into the fact, that during my second year I spent 80% of my time working at the office with a big screen, where there was no possibility of having a Touch Bar. Even if Apple would’ve solved all the other issues, the lack of the Touchbar on the Magic Keyboard alone will already keep a lot of people from building a solid muscle memory.

    Apple needs to get its **** together if they want to make the Touchbar — which is a great idea all in all — succeed. And the 16“ would be great starting point to make a statement...
     

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44 August 2, 2019