My gun control rant

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by iBlazed, Nov 28, 2014.

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  1. iBlazed, Nov 28, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2014

    iBlazed macrumors 68000

    iBlazed

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    #1
    I know this topic is completely played out, but it hit really close to home last night. My sister's apartment was robbed last night while she was at my house for thanksgiving dinner. In addition to her and her husband's Apple gear that was stolen, her gun was stolen as well. I know it was kept hidden (not well enough apparently) somewhere in her bedroom, but don't really have any details as to how it's stored. Anyway, that gun is now on the black market. Of course it's legally registered and reported stolen now, but that's beside the point.

    The point is, pro-gun people are always saying "do you think banning guns will take them away from criminals? They'll only take them away from law abiding citizens!"

    My response to that is, if there were no legal gun market, there would be no illegal gun black market. This is exactly how guns make it to the black market, by being stolen from people who legally own them!

    /end rant

    PS
    The morons forgot to turn off my sister's iPad. I was able to track them down via Find my iPhone right back to their housing complex. Gave the screenshot to police. No word yet if there were any arrests made.
     
  2. sjinsjca macrumors 68000

    sjinsjca

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    #2
    "If there were no legal gun market, there would be no illegal gun black market."

    Which certainly explains why there are no guns in countries in which they are illegal.

    And yes, I'm being sarcastic. Victim disarmament is what you're proposing. It's a prescription for tyranny by thugs and a government with nothing to fear.
     
  3. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

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    #3
    As someone who grew up as a kid in a criminal lifestyle, I can tell you that the largest portion of illegal guns is from illegal gun dealers, who buy from middle man connections that purchase legally.

    If you ever seen the movie Strapped, that's pretty much how the majority of guns flood the streets.

    So yes, you are right. If there were no legal gun market, the illegal market would be done. But the illegal market does not flourish from theft.

    Personal legal ownership doesn't have any real effect on the illegal gun trade. It's the legal loop holes that allow guns to flood the streets.
     
  4. zin macrumors 6502

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    #4
    Last time I checked most of the developed world weren't tyrannies run by criminal dynasties.

    You talk about fear but it is you who is apparently engulfed by it. Forever afraid of the voices in your head that are telling you that tyranny is just around the corner.
     
  5. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #5
    That's awesome! However, two days ago a family in our county experienced a home invasion by four thugs whom they did not know. The mother shot one of the thugs in the stomach. The other three fled. Cops arrived. Thug arrested. No doubt he'll rat out the rest of his crew. I'm positive that that mother was glad she possessed her legally-owned handgun. Incidentally, the father rounded up and hid their children while the mother took care of business.
     
  6. Cromulent macrumors 603

    Cromulent

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    #6
    Yeah because Europe is full of tyrannical thugs and government. Oh wait, I was being sarcastic too.

    What is even more amusing is that there is actually quite a lot of gun ownership in England and Wales.

    According to this source there are 3.4 million legal guns in ownership in England and Wales.

    http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list
     
  7. TechGod macrumors 68040

    TechGod

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    #7
    Playing the " evil big bad government " card again are we?

    ----------

    That's awesome! However the situation doesn't always play out like that. What if the thugs had guns? Then what? The mother wouldn't have been in a good position to do anything.
     
  8. tgara macrumors 6502a

    tgara

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    #8

    Seems like your sister is an irresponsible gun owner. I'm not sure what the laws are in NJ for gun storage, but I'm sure they're pretty strict. I wouldn't be surprised if she gets cited for improper storage, especially if her gun gets used in a robbery or murder. But lucky for her, her brother, Oliver Wendell iBlazed, will be there to act as her attorney when the police come knocking on the door. :D

    Ridiculous. Think about what happened during Prohibition. Liquor was outlawed, but there was a huge black market for it. As long as people want guns, there will be a market for them, black or otherwise.
     
  9. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

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    #9
    Why was she irresponsible, is it cause she didn't have a secret lair or bat cave inside her apartment?
     
  10. iBlazed, Nov 28, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 1, 2014

    iBlazed thread starter macrumors 68000

    iBlazed

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    #10
    And what exactly gave you the idea it was improperly stored? Blind assumption? She didn't get cited for improper storage while the cops were at her house last night because she didn't do anything wrong.

    So you support marijuana legalization, right? Or is that a type of prohibition you support?
     
  11. Tomorrow macrumors 604

    Tomorrow

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    #11
    This might be the single most ignorant thing I've ever read.

    OP, a "black market" is just that - it's illegal. There's no need for any legal market in order to have an illegal market.

    There's a black market for heroin, but there's no legal market for heroin.

    There's a black market for sex slaves, but there's no legal market for sex slaves.

    See where I'm going with this? You can make all guns illegal at every level, but as long as there's a demand for them, someone will make them, legally or otherwise.
     
  12. iBlazed thread starter macrumors 68000

    iBlazed

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    #12
    Im sorry, I didn't realize a modern pistol can be created in a kitchen by your average person with the right ingredients. Drugs can be concocted in any house, sex slaves are kidnapped humans. Guns wouldn't exist if they weren't legally manufactured and sold to the public. At least not in the high numbers they exist in now, anyway. In most cases you're right, you don't need a legal market to have an illegal market. However, in the case of guns, this does not apply.
     
  13. DonJudgeMe macrumors regular

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    #13
    You are some kind of special. :rolleyes:It was irresponsible because it was not locked in a safe.
     
  14. DonJudgeMe macrumors regular

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    #14
    While I will agree that banning guns would cut down on the black market, for a minute, the crazies that think the government will then put forth Martial Law would cause a frenzy and thus bring about the largest increase in gun ownership the world has ever seen.

    However, if they keep restricting the flows and gun ownership laws slowly, we will soon see a relatively gun-free country. As the years go by more and more people will begin to see that it is unnecessary to carry. This will only happen if the government keeps moving at the slow pace they are moving, though.

    Mark my words, if the government flat-out bans guns from citizens, we will see the worst years of this nation, and the largest civil war this world has ever seen.
     
  15. Mac'nCheese macrumors 68030

    Mac'nCheese

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    #15
    Not a civil war. An out and out rebellion.
     
  16. iBlazed thread starter macrumors 68000

    iBlazed

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    #16
    I agree. It's not a problem that can be fixed over night. Has to be a gradual progress. I was just trying to point out a flaw in one particular popular talking point used by the pro-gun crew, that's all.
     
  17. samiwas macrumors 65816

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    #17
    And people say liberalism is a mental disease? It's sad that people actually think this.
     
  18. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

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    #18
    Most hard drugs like cocaine and heroin cannot be concocted in any home. You'll need mass amount of the organic material, and non organic chemicals. Drugs like Meth and Crack are made from drugs itself.

    But when talking about guns, I agree that manufacturers should be accountable for the mass number that end up in the wrong hands.

    If I wanted to, I can go back to my old neighborhood and easily purchase a brand new(never fired) out of the box gun of basically any kind. Manufactures know this happens, and yet remain unaccountable for fulfilling the demand. That's the real problem.


    Okay Mr Assumption, show me where it states it wasn't in a safe? :rolleyes:

    It doesn't even require a safe to be locked in, a simple lock box would do.

    And the OP mentioned nothing about kids. Without kids in the home, a dresser drawer is good enough as long as you secure your apartment/home.
     
  19. iBlazed thread starter macrumors 68000

    iBlazed

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    #19
    FYI, most hand guns in NJ are required to be sold with a secure locked box, however state law does not mandate guns be stored in a safe.



    ----------

    One baby, not of mobile age yet.
     
  20. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

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    #20
    I have Lookout install on my Android devices. Try to turn off or reset, and it automatically takes a front cam picture and emails to me. I can also do this manually. Apple should implement that into find my iPhone.

    ----------

    Were any papers stolen or easy to find? Specifically birth papers and SS numbers. Don't want criminals to have that info or your sister and her husband. They can even do damage with a toddler's info. Even if they were not stolen, pics of them could have been easily taken.
     
  21. iBlazed thread starter macrumors 68000

    iBlazed

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    #21
    That would be great, as a matter of fact, I think Find my iPhone has a lot of potential to be beefed up to be much more useful than it is today. Turning off an iDevice is something people do fairly rarely, and I believe that it should require an iCloud password or at the very least a fingerprint to shut your device down completely. We lucked out that they forgot to turn it off at first, but they did remember once they were in the parking lot of the housing complex. If they were unable to turn it off, I could have traced them back to a specific condo. Find my iPhone is useless when the device is shut down, and at this point that's too easy to do, they need a security step in the shut down process.
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    [/COLOR]
    No, it seemed to be a pretty quick job. In and out, probably needed drug money. They were just after electronics mostly, and apparently didn't even have enough time to look at what they were stealing to assess the value of it. The 15" MacBook Pro was 5 years old (and dented), and my sister's white MacBook was 6 years old. The iPad Air and iPad Mini second gen were the only things potentially of value, but with iCloud lock they're as good as worthless as well. The gun was really their big score in this burglary. Thankfully, this happened right as black Friday was approaching and my brother in law got some sweet deals on a Retina MBP, new MBA for my sister, and an iPad Air 2. Yay for insurance money! :D
     
  22. fitshaced macrumors 68000

    fitshaced

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    #22
    Other than having a right to, what is the reason for your sister having a gun? Does she feel threatened in the area she lives? Is there more danger from her not having a gun or her having it and eventually being stolen and put in the hands of people who are likely to use it against innocent people?

    I really don't understand the concept of having a gun for protection and putting yourself in the position of being able to kill someone in an instant if you feel threatened. Has your sister had to fire it before in defence? Would she expect to feel relief if she actually killed someone who attacked her? Unless it was blatantly obvious such as an attacker pointing a gun at her, the judgement call that results in death could play on her mind for the rest of her life as she will question her decision. That's an enormous amount of pressure for the sake of having a gun just in case.

    How is it civilsed to be involved in a gun fight anyway? That's really the only reason for using a gun.

    Maybe I'm just incredibly naive.
     
  23. DonJudgeMe macrumors regular

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    #23
    My assumption was right because it was not corrected. And I do assume that if you start a thread, starting a debate, that you state the facts. Is that not the point?

    Furthermore, he said the gun was hidden, not locked away and I never said anything about kids. Your gun should be in a safe, no matter what. That is my opinion.
     
  24. iBlazed thread starter macrumors 68000

    iBlazed

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    #24
    She was never really much into guns until she met her husband, who enjoys the art of weapon craftsmanship and appreciates the design aspect of them and also likes going to the shooting range. Their first date was actually a trip to the shooting range, and my sister began to enjoy it herself. However, by the tone of her voice yesterday after I mentioned that her gun is now on the black market, she now seems more interested in investing in a quality security system than replacing her stolen gun.
     
  25. DonJudgeMe macrumors regular

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    #25
    I do not say that your sister was not abiding by the law, and I apologize if it came off that way. I am not against gun ownership, but I do believe that they should be in a safe if you are not carrying.

    I have had my house broken into before. I hope she is doing okay. I know that it makes you feel violated and dirty. I just hope she is dealing with it okay; my wife was counting underwear afterwards and needed therapy. I just hope she's ok.
     
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