Need some help from PRSI...Agenda twenty one

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by tigres, Sep 12, 2012.

  1. tigres macrumors 68040


    Aug 31, 2007
    Land of the Free-Waiting for Term Limits
    Hey folks,

    I am in need of some assistance with my 15 year old son, who has some pretty strange thoughts with items we have debated on as of recent. I bring it here, because honestly; there are some pretty intelligent folks that may be versed in these areas; where I am not.

    The issues lately (do to the wonders of the internet) are of Agenda 21, and all things anti government. I think he actually believes that FEMA is actually building concentration camps to mitigate population density in the US.

    My son is a pretty bright kid, and as of recent his growing up to manhood is strengthening his resolve for reasonable conversation as I once had with him not so long ago.

    Who is versed in the topic here? What can I do to get through to him, or point me somewhere so he can see the craziness it is. Also, I see this Brave New Books website, and all of the youtube videos he watches.

    here is one..

    How would some of you discuss this with your child.

    Please, I am open to suggestions, but keep POLITICS and Parties out of the discussion please. I am just honestly looking for some guidance to combat this and show him this is nut's. Or, is he on to something in anyone's opion??

    Thanks in advance for constructive assistance.
  2. citizenzen, Sep 12, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2012

    citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Mar 22, 2010
    Well, the first thing I'd do is familiarize myself with the U.N. document, which can be found here:

    I wouldn't listen to what a bunch a people said about it, I'd read it first.

    Which I'm going to do right now.

    The first thing I noticed is that this plan was approved by both Clinton and Bush administrations, so if it involves taking over the world, at least it has bi-partisan support.


    Secondly, the "full implementation" of the plan has now been ten years in the making ... and what has changed in our lives? I can't think of anything.

    But I will look further into this to see the diabolical plan that the U.N. has hatched.
  3. fox10078 macrumors 6502


    Nov 6, 2009
    I can honestly say when I was 15 I believed much of the same tin foil junk.

    For me it was only a phase, I grew up, and realized that the simplest answer is usually the correct one, and that when someones most basic defense is "Thats what they want you to think" they are probably full of ****.

    I think when you are at that age when something challenges the status quo you have known your entire life its sort of enticing.
  4. mudslag macrumors regular


    Oct 18, 2010
    No offense to your son but he is a teenager and lets face it, teenagers are relatively stupid and believe most stupid things they hear. Being a teenager in this day and age of the internet is both a blessing and a curse. As if it wasn't hard enough being a teenager before the internet. There is so much truth and BS abound it's hard to keep it all in track with what is or isn't anymore. I like visiting conspiracy sites for a good laugh but it's also scary to see some of the ideas being passed around as fact. Agenda 21 is no different and is just another conspiracy of version of the NWO conspiracies that's decades old now. These conspiracies have grown because of the internet, which is one of the downsides.

    Part of the problem is teenagers are really no different then conspiracist or even some religious people. They rely on little to no evidence and usually backup their belief with the lack of evidence as evidence itself. Everything is a cover for something else more sinister and they rely on the word of friends more so and will fight you on what evidence you provide that counters their claim.

    He is a teenager, it's hard enough to talk to them, let alone convince them a conspiracy is called a conspiracy for a reason. Im 38 now, even back in the early 90s we had the same conspiracy that concentration camps were being built. Just today the internet is the one providing that conspiracy, not the kids who's dad knows someone who built something, blah blah blah. The closest that FEMA has ever been associated to a concentration camp in the US is prob the Superdome in Louisiana during Katrina.
  5. tigres thread starter macrumors 68040


    Aug 31, 2007
    Land of the Free-Waiting for Term Limits
    Reading as well. Good plan, thanks.

    Add.. Demographic Dynamics & Sustainability- I am targeting this section for my reading first.
  6. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Mar 22, 2010
    The Rio Declaration on Environment and Development is a collection of 27 principles, quoted below [bolding mine] ...

    Please note principle #2.

    Those all sound like good ideas to me. I'll leave it up to other here to point out the evil that lurks behind these principles.
  7. fox10078 macrumors 6502


    Nov 6, 2009
    After reading that, it seems to me that the people coming up with these conspiracies about this are paid astroturfers by those who don't want any legislation about the environment moving forward.

    But that is just my "theory".
  8. tigres thread starter macrumors 68040


    Aug 31, 2007
    Land of the Free-Waiting for Term Limits
    He get's this ***** from my ex's side of the family while visiting them on occasion. I have raised him solely since he was 3; and thank God he's turned out a great, loving, respectful etc kid.

    Just as of late, as he is getting that strength to find his own path- this stuff comes up. He thinks I am nuts for voting for anyone but Gary Johnson. We argued a couple of months ago that Pepsi (he claimed) was putting dead baby's in it's new formula (using HEK-293). :rolleyes:

    I can muster and debate with him till I am blue in the face, but seeing he has more energy, is more stubborn (maybe not actually), and is in drama, debate, and forensics at High School; he is waring my patience thin with this BS.

    For some reason, I am finding this age to be the most difficult to understand raising a child. However, I am not taking the backseat approach on these issues with him, and will force him to read this Agenda 21 for himself so he can at least see it's full form.

    Appreciate the input her very much. Open to any and all suggestions.

    Last thought, where the hell do this kids find all this crap? I had never heard of the Pepsi bs or this, he seems to be looking for UFO's and telling me they fly over our house every night. He has yet to prove it yet as other posters and I do recognize. :D
  9. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Mar 22, 2010
    I would recommend asking him to do what we do here in PRSI: provide evidence to back up his assertions and provide the source of that evidence.

    Remind him that if he can't do that, then his argument is based on nothing.

    Here's one other idea. Tell him to join up here. There are lots of people eager to debate these issues all day long. It might just do him some good ... and give you the break you deserve.
  10. fox10078 macrumors 6502


    Nov 6, 2009

    I don't think you need to fret much, with life experience comes understanding, I found my intolerance for subjects such as this came from taking more and more Science and Philosophy classes in college. But only one piece of advise, don't discourage him from pursing certain ideas, but the goal is to have a verifiable metric to test it under.

    Bold 1: The internet, most likely

    Bold 2: Seems like you need to teach him something about aircraft identification :p

    I can attest to this. Many views I held have been changed with the logic and evidence provided by some forum members.
  11. tigres thread starter macrumors 68040


    Aug 31, 2007
    Land of the Free-Waiting for Term Limits
    Hat tip to both of you gentleman for the advice- it was well received and appreciated.

    I am going to go upstairs and invent some of my vent I had earlier with him (I can be dismissive at times which is wrong).

    Again, thanks- I am going to have him join here.
  12. hulugu macrumors 68000


    Aug 13, 2003
    quae tangit perit Trump
    Conspiracy theories often have several escape hatches in their logic, usually citing something like "well, that's what they want you to think."

    I'm not surprised that teenagers are prone to conspiracy theories, they're a way of putting order to a world that has very little, creating a comforting structure of authority and cause that can be quite comforting, even if controlled by malevolent people.
  13. jnpy!$4g3cwk macrumors 65816


    Feb 11, 2010
    A couple of things:

    1) “When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished by how much he'd learned in seven years.” -- Mark Twain

    2) FEMA does have stuff in storage for disasters in your area. Food, tents, cots, water. That's what they do. Sure, they could use the stuff to stock a concentration camp. Or, they could use it to supply you in case of a hurricane, flood, tornado, or earthquake in your area. Many communities also have disaster relief volunteer organizations, and some may be open to teenagers. It is generally a good thing for teenagers to participate in these activities. See: for more info about FEMA.

    3) Paranoia breeds on insularity. Maybe he needs to widen his circle of friends.
  14. shinji macrumors 65816


    Mar 18, 2007
    It sounds like he's doing well in school with all of those extracurricular activities. If it's not interfering with his life in any way, would there be much harm in letting him enjoy his conspiracy theories?

    People in debate teams like to argue. Really, really like to argue. Could be this is just another thing he likes arguing...who knows if he really believes that Pepsi puts dead babies in their formula.
  15. CHAOS STEP macrumors 6502


    Nov 2, 2005
    playing tiddlywinks with Kim Jong-un
    Inadvertently give him access to a load of porn.

    He then won't care at all about all that voodoo nonsense.

    Of course that might get him addicted to porn, but we can cross that bridge when we come to it.
  16. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

    Feb 14, 2004
    OBJECTIVE reality
    If you want to have discussions with him, I wonder if it wouldn't help to concentrate them (especially in election season) on fact checking various claims being made by all kinds of candidates, particularly on the national level. There are enough lies, hidden agendas and other crap there to satisfy all but the most rabid conspiracy theorists.

    Your son is looking to people like Alex Jones (I imagine) for big, grandiose schemes and lies, while possibly the little ones are escaping his notice. He may missing the forest for the trees.

    In fact, if it's conspiracies he wants, suggest that people who disseminate that tin foil hat stuff are the unwitting tools of politicians and business people who want to distract people from their own agendas. They want you to look at the big conspiracy over there, when it's the little conspiracy that's going on over here that's creating problems.

    I'd give an example, but you said leave party politics out of this, so I will respect that.
  17. mcrain macrumors 68000


    Feb 8, 2002
    I think the best thing you can do is ask him to do the research and prove you wrong. At some point he will find out for himself just how crackpot your ex and his family's views are. If he figures it out on his own, it will be far more effective than if you shove it down his throat.
  18. tigres thread starter macrumors 68040


    Aug 31, 2007
    Land of the Free-Waiting for Term Limits
    Funny guy, just what I need my bandwidth throttled at the house. :D

    That is what I tend to believe as well. He certainly is not ready for the forest though the trees lesson on this yet; he needs to do his homework on the facts he chooses to argue with me.

    he and I will be doing some political discussions so he can start to realize the "tools" of the trade- so to speak.

    He is slowly realizing this over time I believe mcrain- it's been a long road over the craziness (I will leave it at that), but it's a harder sell when he has respect for and uncle and a step brother that in his somewhat feeble mind are still "cool".

    Someone mentioned herein (sorry not to name them, don't recall), that I should not discourage his thoughts and process of. Let him grow a bit, and the tin foil may start to come off a bit.

    I know he's young, a bit naive- we all were. I just don't recall thinking like this back when I was younger; but the internet was non existent of course. The **** you can find is endless; and as a parent it's like calling a game with one player against the world.

    I am not worried about his future; but I would be lying if I said this stuff does not scare me a bit.
  19. Sydde macrumors 68020


    Aug 17, 2009
    Maybe you could print out a full copy of Agenda 21 and go over it with him point by point, discussing them meaning, implications and misinterpretations?
  20. VulchR macrumors 68020


    Jun 8, 2009
    I think sometimes young people have a negative view about the world because they are uncomfortable with themselves, stressed, or have some sort of problem on their mind. If the conspiracy theories are relatively new, it might be worth checking to see if anything negative has happened in his life recently (sorry for being trite). Otherwise, I think macrain hit the nail on squarely on the head - challenge him to find out the facts. I'd follow this up with another challenge: to make things better when he is an adult. My kids always rolled their eyes when I did this, but eventually it does sink in (my oldest is running a charity for the homeless while studying at University).

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