New Apple TV search functions only for purchased movies?

Zorn

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Feb 14, 2006
1,028
549
Ohio
Anyone know if the new Apple TV only loads metadata for movies that you purchase through iTunes? For example, the features where you can ask Siri "Show me comedies with Will Ferrell", or "Who's in this movie?" and get a overlay with names/photos of the actors.

I'm figuring that this stuff will be exclusive to content you purchase from iTunes, but anyone that has a unit able to confirm if these things work with movies that you already have from other sources but load into iTunes?
 

Kurri

macrumors 6502
Mar 6, 2009
380
117
Anyone know if the new Apple TV only loads metadata for movies that you purchase through iTunes? For example, the features where you can ask Siri "Show me comedies with Will Ferrell", or "Who's in this movie?" and get a overlay with names/photos of the actors.

I'm figuring that this stuff will be exclusive to content you purchase from iTunes, but anyone that has a unit able to confirm if these things work with movies that you already have from other sources but load into iTunes?
I doubt it would be exclusive to your purchases. This is a great way for them to sell more movies if they show you things you don't own.
 

mattopotamus

macrumors G5
Jun 12, 2012
13,223
3,359
I believe at launch it will search across iTunes, netflix, HBO, and showtime. I would think that includes all movies in iTunes.
 

Aluminum213

macrumors 68040
Mar 16, 2012
3,413
3,505
Universal search for just purchased iTunes movies would be pointless

Thankfully it includes Netflix and hopefully Hulu
 

d21mike

macrumors 68040
Jul 11, 2007
3,296
353
Torrance, CA
Universal search for just purchased iTunes movies would be pointless

Thankfully it includes Netflix and hopefully Hulu
I think a big point is for the Movies you have not yet purchased. But include the ones you have purchased since they are also part of the iTunes Store.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think we have a definitive answer to what I perceive is the core question here: will search be able to (also) find our own video content NOT purchased from the iTunes store? For example, if we've ripped movies from DVD or BD, will searching for movies show if such a movie is already in our own collection, along with showing availability via iTunes Store, Netflix and maybe others?

I think there is general pessimism about this but I doubt it would take a lot of special code on Apple's part... with the key being that such movies have appropriate meta data so that the search function can actually find something. Of course, I understand that :apple:TV has steadily evolved away from what seemed like a good focus on our own media toward renting & buying priorities but I could see this particular topic going either way.

Has none of the developers that already have one offered a definitive yes or no to this question?

And even if the current answer is no, again, it seems like it would be a smallish software update to make it work if Apple was motivated to give us a "just works" solution for our own visual media too.
 
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d21mike

macrumors 68040
Jul 11, 2007
3,296
353
Torrance, CA
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think we have a definitive answer to what I perceive is the core question here: will search be able to (also) find our own video content NOT purchased from the iTunes store? For example, if we've ripped movies from DVD or BD, will searching for movies show if such a movie is already in our own collection, along with showing availability via iTunes Store, Netflix and maybe others.

I think there is general pessimism about this but I doubt it would take a lot of special code on Apple's part... with the key being that such movies have appropriate meta data so that the search function can find something. Of course, I understand that :apple:TV has steadily evolved away from what seemed like a good focus on our own media toward renting & buying priorities but I could see this going either way.

Has none of the developers that already have one offered a definitive yes or no to this question?

And even if the current answer is no, again, it seems like it would be a smallish software update to make it work if Apple was motivated to give us a "just works" solution for our own visual media too.
Based on what I have seen my guess would be no. But that does not mean Apple has to do it. We now have an App Store. If you are talking about ripped movies there is an SDK for Search where the content could be added my some other application. Such as Plex. I think with the App Store, if there is demand an App will be created.
 
That's my guess too for launch. But again, it shouldn't be a big task to make it work if the ripped content has meta data. Conceptually, the new :apple:TV is going to be able to search to find our own ripped music in our iTunes library. The difference between music media and visual media for a Search algorithm should not be great.

Whether Apple WANTS to make that work is another issue. Based on the :apple:TV trend from gen 1 which seemed very home media-centric to gen 3 which banished all such content to "computers", it's obvious :apple:TV is made to push rentals or sales vs. a "just works" tool for serving up our own visual media. But again, it's not like it would be a huge leap to make it work. I hope Apple won't leave that to a Plex or similar but instead add it in a software update if its not there at launch.

Of course, I'm still hoping they'll bring back use of the "Show" tag and the much better way TV Shows used to be organized too, but those are probably (also) lost causes.
 

Aluminum213

macrumors 68040
Mar 16, 2012
3,413
3,505
I think a big point is for the Movies you have not yet purchased. But include the ones you have purchased since they are also part of the iTunes Store.
If it's just movies on iTunes Store the universal search would be pointless for most
 
No, for those that want to use :apple:TV the way Apple has apparently decided THEY want us to use it, the big win in "universal search" (without including our own ripped media) is that now it will work across popular apps. For instance, I search for a movie I want to watch. Instead of only showing me the iTunes store option, it will also show if the movie is available without an added rental fee via Netflix, HBO and others. We know that's true because Apple actually demoed that functionality.

So from that perspective, it is not pointless. However, I certainly hope that "universal" search is not like "unlimited" cellular in that it's a juicy adjective that begs for a restrictive asterisk. Conceptually, "universal" should be universal much as "spotlight" on Macs doesn't seem to care from where any file on our Macs is sourced. Making it work as we consumers desire it would make this a more appealing, more useful product than playing the "universal but excluding..." game. Hopefully Apple get that... or at least the programmers at Apple that work on this particular part of things.
 

Aluminum213

macrumors 68040
Mar 16, 2012
3,413
3,505
No, for those that want to use :apple:TV the way Apple has apparently decided THEY want us to use it, the big win in "universal search" (without including our own ripped media) is that now it will work across popular apps. For instance, I search for a movie I want to watch. Instead of only showing me the iTunes store option, it will also show if the movie is available without an added rental fee via Netflix, HBO and others. We know that's true because Apple actually demoed that functionality.

So from that perspective, it is not pointless. However, I certainly hope that "universal" search is not like "unlimited" cellular in that it's a juicy adjective that begs for a restrictive asterisk. Conceptually, "universal" should be universal much as "spotlight" on Macs doesn't seem to care from where any file on our Macs is sourced. Making it work as we consumers desire it would make this a more appealing, more useful product than playing the "universal but excluding..." game. Hopefully Apple get that... or at least the programmers at Apple that work on this particular part of things.

Right, they demoed it live do I'm not sure why this thread was made
 

Che Castro

macrumors 603
May 21, 2009
5,671
511
Can iflicks make an app for universal search
They can add the universal search api to their atv4 app
And maybe update the Mac app to support this

Oh I don't know what I'm talking about

But is crazy that we can't search our own movies with Siri
 
I read the first question as one about our own media: will "universal search" include our own media in search results? The first part of OPs question doesn't seem to be pointing that way but the last part certainly appears to get at that.

I think the group answer is bouncing between "no" and "we don't know for sure". But I hope that "universal" might actually be universal and not universal* ;) though I too share the pessimism that "universal" = "universal*" much like "unlimited" = "unlimited*" cellular plans.
 

Aluminum213

macrumors 68040
Mar 16, 2012
3,413
3,505
The entire point of universal search is to search within all apps


If it's just iTunes Store it would be iTunes search
 

oneMadRssn

macrumors 601
Sep 8, 2011
4,739
11,030
New England
Tim Cook recently confirmed that at launch, Universal Search is limited only to searching iTunes and Apple's launch partners: Netflix, Hulu, Showtime and HBO. However, he also confirmed that they are working on a universal search API that develops will be able to tap into, but that will come in the future update. http://www.buzzfeed.com/johnpaczkowski/tim-cook-talks-apple-tv#.mmvMrzgAk

Whether that Universal Search API will be in a .1 revision to tvOS soon, or whether it will be in tvOS2 next year is unknown. My guess is it will be in tvOS2 announced next September, unfortunately.

Another main thing currently unknown is what the scope of "iTunes" search is. Is it limited to just the iTunes Store, or does that also include content on iTunes HomeSharing?

On one hand, HomeSharing seems to be fairly low priority for Apple right now. On the other hand, even content purchased on iTunes and downloaded to a Mac is shared via HomeSharing, and surely the experience of pulling it locally over LAN to the AppleTV is both better for the consumer (faster) and saves Apple a few cents as well each time (less downloads from their servers). Thus, I don't think a good educated guess can be made on this. Also, as far as I have seen, the dev units cannot really test this as none of the apps are loaded on them yet.

Even if HomeSharing is not part of Universal Search right away, I think we have seen from the Apple Music launch where the Music App initially lacked HomeSharing capability, that Apple can incorporate that feature pretty quickly if users put pressure on it.
 

Snoopy4

macrumors 6502a
Dec 29, 2014
661
2,921
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think we have a definitive answer to what I perceive is the core question here: will search be able to (also) find our own video content NOT purchased from the iTunes store? For example, if we've ripped movies from DVD or BD, will searching for movies show if such a movie is already in our own collection, along with showing availability via iTunes Store, Netflix and maybe others?

I think there is general pessimism about this but I doubt it would take a lot of special code on Apple's part... with the key being that such movies have appropriate meta data so that the search function can actually find something. Of course, I understand that :apple:TV has steadily evolved away from what seemed like a good focus on our own media toward renting & buying priorities but I could see this particular topic going either way.

Has none of the developers that already have one offered a definitive yes or no to this question?

And even if the current answer is no, again, it seems like it would be a smallish software update to make it work if Apple was motivated to give us a "just works" solution for our own visual media too.
Sadly we don't have enough info. One can make a few reasonable assumptions. If Apple collaborates on an app (Netflix, HBO, Hulu, etc...) then search will probably work (imbeded app). If its not developed in collaboration (probably Amazon, Vudu, Flixster) then I think the possibility exists that it won't because Apple wants to steer us to their friends and away from everyone else (store app). The problem here is the industry is moving away from Apple on the digital copy front so that will leave many people with split catalogs. The only benefit is you won't need two devices.

That said, this is the company that just put a 5400 RPM drive in a $1500 PC with a 4K display yet didn't include 4K capability or an upgrade path in their new device, so there is that.
 

Sethal

macrumors member
Jun 5, 2014
69
256
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think we have a definitive answer to what I perceive is the core question here: will search be able to (also) find our own video content NOT purchased from the iTunes store? For example, if we've ripped movies from DVD or BD, will searching for movies show if such a movie is already in our own collection, along with showing availability via iTunes Store, Netflix and maybe others?

I think there is general pessimism about this but I doubt it would take a lot of special code on Apple's part... with the key being that such movies have appropriate meta data so that the search function can actually find something. Of course, I understand that :apple:TV has steadily evolved away from what seemed like a good focus on our own media toward renting & buying priorities but I could see this particular topic going either way.

Has none of the developers that already have one offered a definitive yes or no to this question?

And even if the current answer is no, again, it seems like it would be a smallish software update to make it work if Apple was motivated to give us a "just works" solution for our own visual media too.
As of right now, I can confirm it does not show results of non-purchased content. I'm ising mine right now.
 

kentsydney

macrumors regular
Aug 28, 2015
147
74
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think we have a definitive answer to what I perceive is the core question here: will search be able to (also) find our own video content NOT purchased from the iTunes store? For example, if we've ripped movies from DVD or BD, will searching for movies show if such a movie is already in our own collection, along with showing availability via iTunes Store, Netflix and maybe others?

I think there is general pessimism about this but I doubt it would take a lot of special code on Apple's part... with the key being that such movies have appropriate meta data so that the search function can actually find something. Of course, I understand that :apple:TV has steadily evolved away from what seemed like a good focus on our own media toward renting & buying priorities but I could see this particular topic going either way.

Has none of the developers that already have one offered a definitive yes or no to this question?

And even if the current answer is no, again, it seems like it would be a smallish software update to make it work if Apple was motivated to give us a "just works" solution for our own visual media too.
From my experience Siri only searches movies TVs shows inn iTunes Store including your purchases.

Doesn't search apps or worst still not music at all

This is almost a perfect product but let down by horrible password keyboard input no music Siri search and no multi air play speaker selection

Please update Apple ...