New Charges Against Manafort & Gates

Mac'nCheese

Suspended
Original poster
Feb 9, 2010
3,732
4,967
I wonder how many people will be taken down for other crimes found out during the Russian investigation. There still is no proof that we know of of collusion but these new charges could put Manafort away for a long time.

"Special counsel Robert Mueller has filed new charges against former Trump campaign staffers Paul Manafort and Rick Gates.

"A grand jury in Virginia filed 32 charges against the two men, including failing to report income including subscribing to false U.S. individual income tax returns and assisting in the preparation of false U.S. individual income, according to court documents."

http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/375153-mueller-files-new-charges-against-manafort-and-gates
 

rjohnstone

macrumors 68040
Dec 28, 2007
3,483
3,399
PHX, AZ.
And the charges have nothing to do with the election or the Trump campaign.
This is what happens when you bring in a special prosecutor... they get carte blanche to travel down the rabbit hole.
Were this any other case, a judge would take issue with the fishing expeditions.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they were charged. A criminal is a criminal and they should be prosecuted.
 

LizKat

macrumors 603
Aug 5, 2004
5,338
29,950
Catskill Mountains
Would you like to supersize your nothingburger?
Yeah... it's a mistake for Trump fans to hang their hats on the collusion peg. The nothingburger is the stuff of monster-movies now, even though it's not the original item on the menu.

A hamburger and a french fry walk into a bar.
The bartender says, "I'm sorry, we don't serve food here."
The menu has changed. Lack of "collusion" at the top doesn't mean the campaign, the transition, the administration are not compromised beyond all hope of redemption. We have elected ourselves a guy whose natural inclinations, track record and choice of advisors and agency dudes have resulted in a government that stinks to high heaven of self-interest and corruption, largely independent of whatever undue influences Mueller's investigation may bring to light. What's fascinating is that Trump firing Comey was the impetus for handing Mueller a more expanded brief than Comey had to begin with.

Impeach Trump
:D Not yet. He hasn't messed up the 2018 midterms for the GOP yet. Impeachment is always political but the country would not likely stand for the Democrats impeaching this President. The party in power is the GOP and Trump is their critter so it's up to them to take him out of office if he's impeachable. Not sayin' they couldn't find some help from across the aisle if they need it, but the Democrats can't lead a Trump impeachment. We'd spend another 40 years in the desert. Let the GOP try those sandals on instead.
 

JayMysterio

macrumors 6502a
Apr 24, 2010
667
12,085
Rock Ridge, California
And the charges have nothing to do with the election or the Trump campaign.
This is what happens when you bring in a special prosecutor... they get carte blanche to travel down the rabbit hole.
Were this any other case, a judge would take issue with the fishing expeditions.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they were charged. A criminal is a criminal and they should be prosecuted.
This is what happens when the order written commissioning the special prosecutor is very broad.

Maybe if a certain president hadn't been so determined to fire a then acting FBI director, the guy who's recommendation you used to fire that director, ( also because you basically badgered your acting attorney general into recusing himself ) wouldn't have had to order a special prosecutor.

Sometimes we really our own worst enemy.
 
Last edited:

mudslag

macrumors regular
Oct 18, 2010
139
9,952
And the charges have nothing to do with the election or the Trump campaign.
This is what happens when you bring in a special prosecutor... they get carte blanche to travel down the rabbit hole.
Were this any other case, a judge would take issue with the fishing expeditions.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they were charged. A criminal is a criminal and they should be prosecuted.


They got busted because they attached themselves to Trump, had they not done so, they'ed still be lurking in the shadows getting away with their crimes.
 

samcraig

macrumors P6
Jun 22, 2009
16,610
35,201
USA
And the charges have nothing to do with the election or the Trump campaign.
This is what happens when you bring in a special prosecutor... they get carte blanche to travel down the rabbit hole.
Were this any other case, a judge would take issue with the fishing expeditions.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they were charged. A criminal is a criminal and they should be prosecuted.
Not in a vacuum. It's not like Mueller was off doing some random side investigations. He was tasked with finding out about Russia meddling. During the investigation of potential players, he found Manafort and Gates (rightfully subject to being investigated as they were players in the election) to have committed crimes.

But sure - take the criminal's side.
 

Huntn

macrumors demi-god
May 5, 2008
17,067
16,583
The Misty Mountains
And the charges have nothing to do with the election or the Trump campaign.
This is what happens when you bring in a special prosecutor... they get carte blanche to travel down the rabbit hole.
Were this any other case, a judge would take issue with the fishing expeditions.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they were charged. A criminal is a criminal and they should be prosecuted.
By all previous standards associating with these kinds of people, having them in your campaign/Administration would sink you, before our integrity standards went down the toilet. Guilt by direct association with these types of people has always been enough to sink the ambitions of politicians, until now. Yet in this case, the lieing, cheating, crooked, sexual assault braggart was still chosen. So much for the judgment of American citizens, at least a sizable percentage of them. :oops:

Trump and family knew all about Russia’s help, as if you can’t recall the candidate waving a Wiki Leaks document and inviting Russians to hack us some more. Once they proved that Russia/ Russia operatives directly meddled and enfluenced the election through social media, (because millions of people viewed their meddling as having a domestic origin) , this became far more than a nothing burger, and Trump is still denying Russia had anything to do with it. Accomplice or stooge? Either way he is unsuitable to be President.

The climax of this investigation remains to be seen, but I imagine it will be something along the lines of testimony that Trump’s people held meeting(s) with Russian operatives about a quid pro quo of lifting sanctions against Russia. And if/when it happens, to believe this all happened behind the Conman’s back is rather a stretch of devotion to a bad cause. :mad:
 

RichardMZhlubb

Contributor
Nov 26, 2010
209
14,911
Washington, DC
By all previous standards associating with these kinds of people, having them in your campaign/Administration would sink you, before our integrity standards went down the toilet. Guilt by direct association with these types of people has always been enough to sink the ambitions of politicians, until now. Yet in this case, the lieing, cheating, crooked, sexual assault braggart was still chosen. So much for the judgment of American citizens, at least a sizable percentage of them.
I think this is exactly right. When it turns out that the president's top advisors were all a bunch of conmen and crooks and the response of his team is that it's no big deal because the prosecutors have yet to offer evidence of direct crimes by the president, and his supporters just shrug their shoulders, it shows a total evisceration of standards and norms like we have never seen in modern times.** I remain confident that the Trump presidency will be a short-lived fiasco that will end by 2021, at the latest, but it's going to take a generation or more to recover from the damage they have done to America and its institutions.

______
**With Watergate, eventually, most of Nixon's supporters realized that he had to go and that his conduct and that of his team were unacceptable. I see no comparable recognition among Trump supporters.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Huntn

Rhonindk

macrumors 68040
Oct 3, 2014
3,770
7,354
watching the birth of the Dem WTH Party
Not in a vacuum. It's not like Mueller was off doing some random side investigations. He was tasked with finding out about Russia meddling. During the investigation of potential players, he found Manafort and Gates (rightfully subject to being investigated as they were players in the election) to have committed crimes.

But sure - take the criminal's side.
How about taking the "civil rights" side? Because you were part of the Donald Trump for President campaign we are going to fish your life empty. That is so wrong.
Legal grasping at straws; the use of pretrial investigation discovery or witness questioning in an unfocused attempt to uncover damaging evidence to be used against an adversary.
 

samcraig

macrumors P6
Jun 22, 2009
16,610
35,201
USA
How about taking the "civil rights" side? Because you were part of the Donald Trump for President campaign we are going to fish your life empty. That is so wrong.
He's a known criminal. Not sure why you're advocating his innocence
 

Rhonindk

macrumors 68040
Oct 3, 2014
3,770
7,354
watching the birth of the Dem WTH Party
He's a known criminal. Not sure why you're advocating his innocence
Who said anything about innocence?
I'm talking about unfettered fishing expeditions.
[doublepost=1519404230][/doublepost]

Lie down with the pigs, you smell like garbage. Suck it up, buttercup.
Not exactly sure what you are trying to impart. My comment was about the unfettered use of fishing expeditions.
btw - who is Buttercup?
 

samcraig

macrumors P6
Jun 22, 2009
16,610
35,201
USA
Who said anything about innocence?
I'm talking about unfettered fishing expeditions.
[doublepost=1519404230][/doublepost]

Not exactly sure what you are trying to impart. My comment was about the unfettered use of fishing expeditions.
btw - who is Buttercup?
He was involved in Trump's campaign
They were looking for ties to Russia
they found some.

Where's the fishing expedition?
 
  • Like
Reactions: BaldiMac

Lloydbm41

Suspended
Oct 17, 2013
4,025
1,439
Central California
Gates and Manafort were neck deep in Russia via Ukraine/Chrimea and Putin. It wasn’t a fishing expedition on Mueller’s part. Only Trump supporters believe that b.s.

Now Mueller is using these 2 to get Kushner and Trump Jr. Everybody involved with Trumps campaign was and is shady, including Trump.
 
  • Like
Reactions: samcraig

Rhonindk

macrumors 68040
Oct 3, 2014
3,770
7,354
watching the birth of the Dem WTH Party
He was involved in Trump's campaign
They were looking for ties to Russia
they found some.

Where's the fishing expedition?
(DOC)
These have nothing to do with "Russian Collusion" or "Russian Meddling".
Once again, I am against fishing expeditions and the courts have agreed.
Still, I will await the conclusion of this "investigation".
[doublepost=1519410097][/doublepost]
Gates and Manafort were neck deep in Russia via Ukraine/Chrimea and Putin. It wasn’t a fishing expedition on Mueller’s part. Only Trump supporters believe that b.s.

Now Mueller is using these 2 to get Kushner and Trump Jr. Everybody involved with Trumps campaign was and is shady, including Trump.
You are assuming that is what he is doing.
And yes, deny all you want, point fingers all you want, by definition it is a classic fishing expedition.
 

samcraig

macrumors P6
Jun 22, 2009
16,610
35,201
USA
(DOC)
These have nothing to do with "Russian Collusion" or "Russian Meddling".
Once again, I am against fishing expeditions and the courts have agreed.
Still, I will await the conclusion of this "investigation".
[doublepost=1519410097][/doublepost]

You are assuming that is what he is doing.
And yes, deny all you want, point fingers all you want, by definition it is a classic fishing expedition.
Not sure why you have investigation in quotes as if there really isn't one. I think you're misusing it here.

Also - the charges aren't related to Russian Collusion or Meddling, but they were uncovered/affirmed during the investigation into those items. Again - no fishing here.
 

Rhonindk

macrumors 68040
Oct 3, 2014
3,770
7,354
watching the birth of the Dem WTH Party
Not sure why you have investigation in quotes as if there really isn't one. I think you're misusing it here.

Also - the charges aren't related to Russian Collusion or Meddling, but they were uncovered/affirmed during the investigation into those items. Again - no fishing here.
We will have to agree to disagree. Many, including myself see the extent of the Mueller investigation as devolving into a fishing expedition.
I placed investigation into quotes as there appears to be two separate investigations; Russian and anything else that can be uncovered and utilized as leverage.
 

Lloydbm41

Suspended
Oct 17, 2013
4,025
1,439
Central California
(DOC)
These have nothing to do with "Russian Collusion" or "Russian Meddling".
Once again, I am against fishing expeditions and the courts have agreed.
Still, I will await the conclusion of this "investigation".
[doublepost=1519410097][/doublepost]

You are assuming that is what he is doing.
And yes, deny all you want, point fingers all you want, by definition it is a classic fishing expedition.
By your definition, any criminal case can be called a fishing expedition. The only reason your are calling it one is because you support Trump and his family and friends of soon to be felons.
 
  • Like
Reactions: iLunar

samcraig

macrumors P6
Jun 22, 2009
16,610
35,201
USA
We will have to agree to disagree. Many, including myself see the extent of the Mueller investigation as devolving into a fishing expedition.
I placed investigation into quotes as there appears to be two separate investigations; Russian and anything else that can be uncovered and utilized as leverage.
I think you're wrong. Sorry. The investigation is Russian meddling. And Gates just plead guilty to conspiring. So there's that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JayMysterio

iLunar

macrumors 6502
Jul 23, 2006
340
641
How can you prove a crime without intent? The point of these indictments at this moment is prove intent, i.e. money. If Trumps assets are tied up in money laundering from Russian oligarchs same as his campaign managers, it establishes motive & conspiracy.

And coincidentally, the Trump administration has yet to follow through with any Russian sanctions handed down by Congress. Why?
 

vrDrew

macrumors 65816
Jan 31, 2010
1,317
11,838
Midlife, Midwest
And the charges have nothing to do with the election or the Trump campaign.
This is what happens when you bring in a special prosecutor... they get carte blanche to travel down the rabbit hole
No, not at all.

Both Manafort and Gates were very senior members of the Trump Campaign. Manafort was the head of the entire operation for some time, and Gates stayed with Trump through the transition. More importantly, both Gates and Manafort made a tremendous amount of money serving Ukranian politicians closely allied with Moscow. (The fact they decided to try and defraud the US Government of the taxes on the proceeds is why they are under indictment.) And furthermore, the only item that was changed on the 2016 Republican party platform, once Trump was named Presidential Candidate, was the provision for supplying weapons to Ukraine to defend itself against Russia.

Someday, someone is going to have to explain to me how that happened. Because someone thought it was a good idea. Was it Manafort, was it Gates? And where was Donald Trump when that decision was made? Did he not care?

This investigation is far from over. And, before it is done, Paul Manafort and a fairly large number of people connected to the Trump 2016 have got a lot of 'splainin' to do.
 

Vanilla Ice

macrumors 6502
Jan 30, 2011
468
2,825
Los Angeles
And the charges have nothing to do with the election or the Trump campaign.
This is what happens when you bring in a special prosecutor... they get carte blanche to travel down the rabbit hole.
Were this any other case, a judge would take issue with the fishing expeditions.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they were charged. A criminal is a criminal and they should be prosecuted.
Happy they are charged. BUT Trump! What about Trump!!!!