New Ferguson Video Adds Wrinkle to Michael Brown Case

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Mac'nCheese, Mar 12, 2017.

  1. Mac'nCheese macrumors 68030

    Mac'nCheese

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    #1
    "In the two and a half years since Michael Brown, a black 18-year-old, was shot and killed by a white police officer in Ferguson, Mo., the explosive case has been parsed in intricate detail. Witnesses offered varying descriptions of the fatal encounter. Investigators examined bloodstain evidence on the street where Mr. Brown died. And the police released a security video from a nearby store that showed Mr. Brown pushing a worker and taking cigarillos minutes before the shooting."

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/11/us/michael-brown-ferguson-police-shooting-video.html?_r=0


    So was one video from one store and the other from another store? Was this one edited to take the push out?
     
  2. JayMysterio macrumors 6502

    JayMysterio

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    It was all one video.

    The belief is that the police obtained the video, disregarded the earlier incident where Michael Brown went in and did a drug transaction. The cigarillos were actually supposedly part of his payment.

    There was always a question as to why the video suddenly showed up, many believing it paint Brown in the most negative light. The police showed one part of the video to paint a narrative, and left the remainder out which is what is causing all the fuss now.
     
  3. TonyC28 macrumors 65816

    TonyC28

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    So the defense is that he's a drug dealer, not a thief?
     
  4. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    The question will always be what did the police know about Michael Brown when they approached him on the street?
     
  5. Tomorrow macrumors 604

    Tomorrow

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    They knew he was walking in the street and became belligerent when the officer told him to move to the sidewalk.
     
  6. JayMysterio macrumors 6502

    JayMysterio

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    There's a bit more ( <- That's called an understatement ) nuance here than he was walking in the street and became belligerent. Keep in mind the Ferguson police got sited for systemic racism, using the city itself as a cash machine. Consistent harassment, excessive use of tasers, and more. The citizens are understandably wary of any and all police contact. A highlights, or lowlights if you will can be read here from the DOJ

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...thing-ferguson-report/?utm_term=.7407c92fa2f4

    Why is this relevant? Keep in mind, unlike most of you, a citizen could be arrested for walking across the street. To you it may sound implausible, but tell it to the guy who was sitting in his car doing nothing and got hit with 8 violations, and called a pedophile in front of children. In other parts of the country many are stopped while DWB, this man was Stationary While Black, a new one for most.

    Anyways, the initial news was that the officer saw Brown & another man walking across the street. The officer asked the men to step to the sidewalk, at which point the officer believed Brown fit the description of a robbery suspect. A confrontation occurred, where witnesses differ on what happened. Brown went to the car as asked, then suddenly reached in for the gun, or punched the officer, or both. The officer shot Brown twice who fled. The officer gave chase. For some reason Brown stopped. Some witnesses claim Brown turned and raised his hands, another witness said he charged the an officer with a loaded gun. The officer said Brown bulked up and began charging him at which point he feared for his life because Brown and fired killing him.

    Afterwards a video was quickly released by the police much to the surprise of everyone because there was no video earlier, which showed Brown supposedly strong arming a clerk. Many saw this video and the timing of how the officer suddenly knew ( there is a timeline descrepancy of when the officer could have supposedly known about the robbery, but it's since been said he was aware earlier ) about the robbery, and the video was released to make the victim look bad.

    Avoiding the complexities of how the Police management acted, the prosecutor basically making the defense for the officer and only allowing the witness who corroborated the officer's statements, the issue with the video is it wasn't the whole video.

    A documentarian supposedly found more video which he released in a video of his own. In it, it's believed it shows Brown was actually there in a non robbery, but actually made a drug deal and the supposedly stolen cigarillos that started all this was part of a payment. The police left this part out, claiming it was irrelevant. Now the store owner is claiming this video is out of context, which is understandable since it shows an illegal drug transaction in his store.

    So yes, the issue revolves around what the officer knew beforehand that caused the confrontation. Initially it seemed like he just went after two guys crossing a street, which is not an issue the police usually deal with, unless you're in somewhere like Ferguson. The officer realized that Brown fit a description of a robbery suspect, the problem being there is some issue of how he knew about the robbery, because the narrative about the robbery was supposedly added afterward with the videos release.

    Since the conditions in Ferguson were already a racial crapfest, Brown's death was the spark on a powder keg. Going back to the behavior of the prosecutor & police management, the fact that no charges were brought since the prosecutor couldn't indict ( google the term 'a prosecutor can indict a ham sandwich' and you'll understand the outrage ) since he effectively litigated against himself & made the unusual press conference announcing he wouldn't indict blaming it on the grand jury he influences, and you can see why things are getting a little heated again.
     
  7. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

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    No, the defense is he didn't rob the store like the media painted it.
     
  8. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

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    So he went from patron saint of cigarillos to patron saint of weed? The fact of the matter is quite simple don't attack a police officer and you won't end up dead.
     
  9. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #9
    Failing to be a patron saint is not justifiable cause for police killing, nor is idiocy, nor is being a big guy. As for the attack on the police officer, we'll never know how it went down because we have only one side of the story, and Brown wasn't killed during the alleged attack, but afterwards.
     
  10. Tomorrow macrumors 604

    Tomorrow

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    That wasn't the question I was asked.
     
  11. JayMysterio macrumors 6502

    JayMysterio

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    I just stated that there was a little more to your simplified summary.

    The question asked by someone else, was what did the officer know. As I tried to explain, that has been up to debate by some. The video brings that particular narrative itself under question. The video itself and it's legitimacy are also another question.
     
  12. Tomorrow macrumors 604

    Tomorrow

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    The question was what did the officer know "when they approached him on the street." He knew that Brown was walking in the street, and he didn't comply when he was told to move. That's it. Anything else the officer either didn't know, or didn't realize until afterward.

    Nothing in either video gives us any reason to think otherwise. It's a non-story as far as I'm concerned.
     
  13. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    Umm, we have both sides. Saint Marijuana Michael may be dead but there was plenty of evidence on his body, on Wilson, his patrol vehicle and his gun.

    The entire story put out and bought by the usual suspects was nothing more than a bold face lie. For those with ADD the summary starts at the bottom of page 5 and end at the second paragraph page 8.
    --- Post Merged, Mar 14, 2017 ---
    Page 6 paragraph 2.
     
  14. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #14
    The policeman wasn't tried on a case of what happened before he was assaulted and responded so this video showing another upstanding citizen is irrelevant.
     
  15. Huntn macrumors G5

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    Read post 6.
     
  16. A.Goldberg macrumors 68000

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    I'm not sure this changes much. In the latter video he can still be seen roughly handling the store clerk. Assuming the cigarillos were "paid" for does not mean that clerk was privy to that information.

    Regardless, while his previous behavior displays a propensity to violence and illicit behavior (which falls in line with his lengthy arrest record), the true evidence lies at the crime scene where Brown was shot and whatever consistent story filters out from eye witnesses.

    I don't contest the conclusion made by law enforcement in this case. I do however think the way the prosecution handled the indictment as basically a trial is questionable.
     
  17. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

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    You would rather trust some random poster than the official report?
     
  18. Populism macrumors regular

    Populism

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    #18
    It should be illegal for any white cop to shoot any black person.

    Ever.

    For any reason.

    That is the Michael Brown lesson that liberals/democrats/progressives have taught us.

    To suggest otherwise - that there is ever a justified white-on-black shooting - is bigotry.
     
  19. JayMysterio macrumors 6502

    JayMysterio

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    As I tried to add some context to all that happened, I hoped to explain some of the renewed uproar caused by the documentarian's new video. Others seemed to definitively know what happened or what was thought, and that is good enough for them. The point of the video & it's uproar is that we what we think we know may not be correct.

    The DoJ has been posted, since it coincides with the officer's statement, it's good as gold for some.

    The officer's own words from the wrongful death civil suit, maybe a bit contrary to what's 'known'.

    http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/do...ficer-darren-wilsons-list-of-admissions/2371/

    The interesting part may revolve around the 'assault' of the officer by Brown. According to the officer, Brown didn't reach in, he initiated.


    The narrative that Brown reached for the officer's gun-

    [​IMG]
    The context that I tried to convey about the tense situation the Police have with the citizenry of Ferguson, where any contact with the Police could lead to arrest. Perhaps even crossing the street, which isn't an issue with many posting here. The people employed to supposedly serve & protect were sometimes very hostile to those they were sworn to protect.

    It's lengthy but pages 6 - 8, the Officer's own words say that he pulled up on the two men crossing the street and yelled "Get the F-!" out as his first words. It's during these pages where the officer doesn't clarify when he communicated with dispatch and supposedly found out that Brown was involved in a robbery. The robbery that is covered in the video that suddenly popped up later to put the victim in a bad light & support the officer. The video that may not have been completely released by the police when they did that release. Which is where the issue of what the officer was thinking when he pulled up on Brown is up for question. In the suit there is a section covering his possible racist attitude.

    [​IMG]

    As I was trying to say this is why the recent bit of video is causing all this fuss. Ferguson & it's Police has been a racial crapshow, the Brown death, the handling of it, did not help.

    As a digression, I often wonder since it's pointed in other posts, why the dragging out of the liberal label? The outrage maybe from citizens who live in an area where they may feel embattled by their very government. That isn't a liberal or conservative thing, just a human thing.
     

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