New Jersey To Tesla: You're Outta Here

rdowns

macrumors Penryn
Original poster
Jul 11, 2003
27,345
12,408
This strikes me as anti free market, anti job creation, anti consumer and protectionist for car dealers. IMO, car dealers add little to no value to the process.


Tesla Motors is being courted by four Southwestern states for its $5 billion gigafactory, but there’s another state that is kissing Tesla goodbye.

The New Jersey Motor Vehicle Commission voted Tuesday to ban the direct sale of vehicles in the state, becoming the third state in the nation to prevent Tesla from selling to consumers. That would force Tesla, founded by billionaire Elon Musk, to sell its cars through dealers.

Instead, Tesla will stop selling cars in New Jersey on April 1, according to Dow Jones. That means the auto company won’t have access to one of the nation’s most lucrative markets for luxury vehicles, while well-heeled New Jerseyites will have to pick up their Teslas somewhere else.

The commission’s vote followed month of discussions between Tesla and members of Gov. Chris Christie’s administration, according to a post on Tesla’s blog. The auto company said it thought that the commission and the administration were working to help it in the face of opposition from the New Jersey Coalition of Automotive Retailers.

Like many other dealer groups across the country, New Jersey dealers did not want Tesla to be able to sell cars directly to customers. On Monday, Tesla said it learned that “Governor Christie’s administration has gone back on its word to delay a proposed anti-Tesla regulation so that the matter could be handled through a fair process in the Legislature.”
http://www.forbes.com/sites/michelinemaynard/2014/03/11/new-jersey-to-tesla-youre-outta-here/
 

TheAppleFairy

macrumors 68030
Mar 28, 2013
2,504
1,938
The Clinton Archipelago unfortunately
Completely agree with you there, that's too bad for people who were looking to buy a Tesla in NJ. I like the idea of direct sales. I had dealing with car dealerships anyway. I hope Tesla can help change the way we buy cars here. They are still really small to make any difference, but it's a start.
 

edk99

macrumors 6502a
May 27, 2009
701
709
FL
True, but if they buy out-of-state, state sales taxes (if any) are lost to N.J.

"Follow the money." ;)
That is not how it works for cars. If you buy out of state sales tax still goes to NJ. I forget exactly how it works but you pay some tax at the dealer that goes to NJ then when you register the car in NJ you would pay the difference if any if the rate they charged you at the dealer was different then the rate where you live in NJ.

In any event NJ will not be losing out on the tax.

You can thank the auto dealers lobbing group for pushing politicians to make these laws. So if Tesla wants to sell their cars in NJ they will have to do it through a dealer and not direct.
 

Michael Goff

Suspended
Jul 5, 2012
13,262
7,298
That is not how it works for cars. If you buy out of state sales tax still goes to NJ. I forget exactly how it works but you pay some tax at the dealer that goes to NJ then when you register the car in NJ you would pay the difference if any if the rate they charged you at the dealer was different then the rate where you live in NJ.

In any event NJ will not be losing out on the tax.

You can thank the auto dealers lobbing group for pushing politicians to make these laws. So if Tesla wants to sell their cars in NJ they will have to do it through a dealer and not direct.
So if they go to another state, they buy in that state, they drive it back to NJ, they're supposedly supposed to pay sales tax in NJ? :confused:
 

rdowns

macrumors Penryn
Original poster
Jul 11, 2003
27,345
12,408
So if they go to another state, they buy in that state, they drive it back to NJ, they're supposedly supposed to pay sales tax in NJ? :confused:

Correct. You pay the sales tax based on where you register the vehicle, not where you buy it.
 

Technarchy

macrumors 604
May 21, 2012
6,747
4,885
I'm a big supporter of Tesla.

There is no reason to mandate a middle man.

These lobbyist backed nonsense regulations are going to retard the adoption rate of electric cars and growth of the charging infrastructure.
 

bradl

macrumors 601
Jun 16, 2008
4,006
11,823
I'm a big supporter of Tesla.

There is no reason to mandate a middle man.

These lobbyist backed nonsense regulations are going to retard the adoption rate of electric cars and growth of the charging infrastructure.
Which means that they should follow the votes or those involved in the decision to have the ban. If they find out that other manufacturers or dealerships were involved in the decision making for the ban, that screams antitrust.

BL.
 

quagmire

macrumors 603
Apr 19, 2004
6,255
1,063
Which means that they should follow the votes or those involved in the decision to have the ban. If they find out that other manufacturers or dealerships were involved in the decision making for the ban, that screams antitrust.

BL.
There would be no reason why the automakers would oppose Tesla being able to directly sell their cars. It would actually benefit them if Tesla wins out because they could also start opening corporate dealers and having more direct control in their customer service at dealers.

You don't know how many people will blame the automaker for a dealer trying to screw them thinking they have control over the process. They don't.

I hate the third party dealers. It makes it hard for automakers to shrink their dealer network if they have to. The dealers sued GM and Chrysler after they tried to close them down during their bankruptcy. You of course have the dealer markups. And you can also blame the dealers for shoddy product decisions like the Pontiac G3 and G5( not putting sole blame on the dealers, but they had a role in that decision). Pontiac dealers wanted more volume products to sell and in order for GM to get them to consolidate with Buick and GMC dealers, we got the "wonderful" G3 and G5.... :rolleyes:

If Apple, MS, AT&T, Verizon, etc can have corporate stores, automakers should too. You don't see Apple's, MS's, AT&T's, Verizon's, etc corporate stores putting the third party ones out of business.... :rolleyes:
 
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elistan

macrumors 6502a
Jun 30, 2007
979
441
Denver/Boulder, CO
I have not.



That is stupid.



That makes no sense to me.
That's how ALL sales taxes are supposed to work. That's why if you purchase an iPhone, you pay your state's sales tax even through it's assembled in and shipped from China.

Things are slightly different if the vendor does not have a presence in your state - in which case they are not required to collect sales tax at the time of sale. But the consumer is still required to pay the sales tax.

It's just that the states pretty much never enforce that.

Except in the case of cars, since cars have to be registered to use on the road. That gives states the capability to enforce their sales tax. Something like a DSLR purchased online doesn't have to be registered with the state to be used, so the state has no idea you ever purchased it, so they don't bother trying to enforce the collection of sales tax on such items.

If that same customer purchases the DSLR in person, even out of state, the product is considered "delivered" at the location of sale, and would be taxed at the local sales tax rate.

http://taxes.about.com/od/statetaxes/a/Do-I-Charge-Sales-Tax-Or-Not.htm
 

macquariumguy

macrumors 6502a
Jan 7, 2002
823
225
Sarasota FL
Which means that they should follow the votes or those involved in the decision to have the ban. If they find out that other manufacturers or dealerships were involved in the decision making for the ban, that screams antitrust.

BL.
These dealership laws are 100 years old. They actually served a purpose at one time.
 

Michael Goff

Suspended
Jul 5, 2012
13,262
7,298
That's how ALL sales taxes are supposed to work. That's why if you purchase an iPhone, you pay your state's sales tax even through it's assembled in and shipped from China.

Things are slightly different if the vendor does not have a presence in your state - in which case they are not required to collect sales tax at the time of sale. But the consumer is still required to pay the sales tax.

It's just that the states pretty much never enforce that.

Except in the case of cars, since cars have to be registered to use on the road. That gives states the capability to enforce their sales tax. Something like a DSLR purchased online doesn't have to be registered with the state to be used, so the state has no idea you ever purchased it, so they don't bother trying to enforce the collection of sales tax on such items.

If that same customer purchases the DSLR in person, even out of state, the product is considered "delivered" at the location of sale, and would be taxed at the local sales tax rate.

http://taxes.about.com/od/statetaxes/a/Do-I-Charge-Sales-Tax-Or-Not.htm
This is different. If I buy something in China, and go get it in China, I don't pay for sales tax in my state (I don't think).

Have you ever bought a car?
Nope.