New Kentucky Governor's Solution for Kim Davis

WarHeadz

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Lol. Talk about pandering to an agenda. But as long as that's how it's done for all couples, then whatever. Still sour grapes though. I envision pouting 10 year olds when I think about these people.
 

FieldingMellish

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Can't have it both ways. Either you let everybody opt out of certain laws for all closely held beliefs or you grow up and put your closely held beliefs to one side whist carrying out your public duties.
How about groups that opted out of Obamacare, contrasted with those unable to do so? I recall in one case how unions stood firm in backing Obamacare, but were granted pardons from instituting it among their constituents.
 
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zin

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pdqgp

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It is against many peoples religion to be involved in the same sex marriage thing. That's why they refuse to participate. This proposal solves that problem.
exactly. again not everyone supports the idea and with the whole concept of marriage in the traditional form being changed many just say f-it and let the masses have it. doesn't change the fact that many won't see it that way. it's just a word and paperwork on the surface anyway. I personally don't care either way, my marriage is different in my eyes for my reasons, I don't need to accept what I would call a civil union as equal to what I have regardless of what the gov't wants to call it in order to be PC.

just like MJ, many of the states and legislators are just pandering to the masses and cutting bait to stay in office, get what they want and let the chips fall as they may.
 

dec.

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exactly. again not everyone supports the idea and with the whole concept of marriage in the traditional form being changed many just say f-it and let the masses have it. doesn't change the fact that many won't see it that way. it's just a word and paperwork on the surface anyway. I personally don't care either way, my marriage is different in my eyes for my reasons, I don't need to accept what I would call a civil union as equal to what I have regardless of what the gov't wants to call it in order to be PC.

just like MJ, many of the states and legislators are just pandering to the masses and cutting bait to stay in office, get what they want and let the chips fall as they may.
Of course someone like you doesn't need to view it as equal and you can feel free to interpret any mythological being like "god" (or any other unicorn of your choice) into your marriage, but considering that the only relevant institution in this matter - the government - does not make a difference between "same-sex marriage" and "heterosexual marriage" that's completely irrelevant for the same-sex couples. I'm pretty sure that nobody is running around arms up, yelling "bohoo, my fundamentalist 'Christian' neighbour doesn't view us as equal, bohoo!!!". Instead, thousands of newly wed same-sex couples throughout the US are simply enjoying the benefits of marriage (also, this of course means that the motivation behind the legalization of same-sex marriage - may it be true acceptance or simply PC - ultimately is irrelevant as well).
 
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citizenzen

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Of course someone like you doesn't need to view it as equal and you can feel free to interpret any mythological being like "god" (or any other unicorn of your choice) into your marriage, but considering that the only relevant institution in this matter - the government - does not make a difference between "same-sex marriage" and "heterosexual marriage" that's completely irrelevant for the same-sex couples. I'm pretty sure that nobody is running around arms up, yelling "bohoo, my fundamentalist 'Christian' neighbour doesn't view us as equal, bohoo!!!". Instead, thousands of newly wed same-sex couples throughout the US are simply enjoying the benefits of marriage (also, this of course means that the motivation behind the legalization of same-sex marriage - may it be true acceptance or simply PC - ultimately is irrelevant as well).
Agreed. Nobody wants to go inside pdqgp's head and change his personal opinion. He is welcome to whatever opinion he wants. So long as he follows the law (if it even applies to him) that is all society demands.
 

pdqgp

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I'm pretty sure that nobody is running around arms up, yelling "bohoo, my fundamentalist 'Christian' neighbour doesn't view us as equal, bohoo!!!".
Great, but many do an I've seen people respond as if they think just because a legal aspect changes then as should everyone's view. Not so. In many cases even the law doesn't matter as there's most always a way....

Just consider my reply a post in response to the the last 3 questions in the OP.
 

pdqgp

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So long as he follows the law (if it even applies to him) that is all society demands.
meh....again, if I don't want you working for me at my company, you won't. No law protecting who you marry or have sex with is going to secure you a spot here.
 

citizenzen

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meh....again, if I don't want you working for me at my company, you won't. No law protecting who you marry or have sex with is going to secure you a spot here.
You got a real big heart. Don't ever change, man.
 

dec.

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Great, but many do an I've seen people respond as if they think just because a legal aspect changes then as should everyone's view. Not so. In many cases even the law doesn't matter as there's most always a way....

Just consider my reply a post in response to the the last 3 questions in the OP.
"Anti-discrimination laws can be bypassed!1!1", well congratulations for making that observation - you'll always find someone who will go through loopholes to discriminate others based on ethnicity, "religion", sexual orientation, political views, looks or whatever else upsets them. This really has not much to do with the topic "same-sex marriage" in general, as it applies to a very wide variety of attributes and cases.

Again, the relevant definition of "equality" for same-sex couples (or LBGT individuals) is the "equality before law" not "equality before some conservative 'religious' fundamentalists". I doubt that anyone is naive enough to think that people like you could/would change - and you don't need to change. There's really not one single benefit of marriage that your kind can take away from same-sex couples. You practice discrimination at your own will no matter if same-sex marriage is legal or not, so really, you have no point.
 

pdqgp

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, so really, you have no point.
You're correct. The law really has no negative impact on me or those that don't wish to accept it or approve of it and thus why I really don't think there's much in the way of outcry from the masses otherwise.

In fact crying out and making a stink really does nothing. Just take aim and fire, pun intended in many ways, and move on without making an issue.
 

WarHeadz

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"Anti-discrimination laws can be bypassed!1!1", well congratulations for making that observation - you'll always find someone who will go through loopholes to discriminate others based on ethnicity, "religion", sexual orientation, political views, looks or whatever else upsets them. This really has not much to do with the topic "same-sex marriage" in general, as it applies to a very wide variety of attributes and cases.

Again, the relevant definition of "equality" for same-sex couples (or LBGT individuals) is the "equality before law" not "equality before some conservative 'religious' fundamentalists". I doubt that anyone is naive enough to think that people like you could/would change - and you don't need to change. There's really not one single benefit of marriage that your kind can take away from same-sex couples. You practice discrimination at your own will no matter if same-sex marriage is legal or not, so really, you have no point.
It's ok, there's plenty of huge seasoned legal teams ready to stick their teeth into a business caught doing that. People like him aren't as smart as they think they are. Hope he has a good time in court. If someone wants to do that, don't be surprised if your business gets financially destroyed as a result of your primitive thinking and bigotry.
 

pdqgp

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It's ok, there's plenty of legal teams ready to stick their teeth into a business caught doing that. People like him aren't as smart as they think they are. Hope he has a good time in court. If someone wants to do that, don't be surprised if your business gets financially destroyed as a result of your primitive thinking and bigotry.
yes there are but again, it's not difficult to do.
 

dec.

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You're correct. The law really has no negative impact on me or those that don't wish to accept it or approve of it and thus why I really don't think there's much in the way of outcry from the masses otherwise.
Exactly, that's what advocates of same-sex marriage have been saying all along: It has no negative impact on anyone. And your approval or "acceptance" is neither required nor relevant.

In fact crying out and making a stink really does nothing. Just take aim and fire, pun intended in many ways, and move on without making an issue.
Bad things happen in this world, some go unnoticed, oh well.
 

tgara

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Exactly, that's what advocates of same-sex marriage have been saying all along: It has no negative impact on anyone. And your approval or "acceptance" is neither required nor relevant.
But it does impact many people. Kim Davis was just the latest and most prominent example. Not to mention any of the photographers, florists or bakers who have been sued or fined because they simply did not want to participate in a gay marriage ceremony.

So no, it by all means certainly does impact people.
 

Renzatic

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Gramps, what the hell am I paying you for?
But it does impact many people. Kim Davis was just the latest and most prominent example. Not to mention any of the photographers, florists or bakers who have been sued or fined because they simply did not want to participate in a gay marriage ceremony.

So no, it by all means certainly does impact people.
Yeah. "Impacted" them in the sense that they had to acknowledge it. No other negative impact, other than the public backlash they got after throwing their temper tantrums.

Here's the way I see it. Don't like gay people, but they're coming in asking for a flower arrangement/cake/sandwiches for their wedding? Are they willing to pay for the service they're asking for? Then who cares? Do it, be done with it, get paid. You're not doing anything you don't normally do, save for the fact that the bride and the groom might be two chicks, or two dudes.
 

zin

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Your first link concerns self-administered healthcare plans. Nothing unique to unions.

Your second link concerns an application for a waiver (that may or may not be granted) for collectively bargained healthcare plans. That's not specific to unions either. The IRS is taking comments according to that article. You should message them.

Your first link also notes a swathe of other organisations that have been granted waivers to other provisions including, rather ironically, health insurance companies. There is nothing specifically granted to unions in your links.
 

zin

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But it does impact many people. Kim Davis was just the latest and most prominent example. Not to mention any of the photographers, florists or bakers who have been sued or fined because they simply did not want to participate in a gay marriage ceremony.

So no, it by all means certainly does impact people.
They aren't participating in the wedding. They're providing a product and/or service. That's it. The relationship between those occupations and the marriage participants is purely business. If you try to make it otherwise then you're being very silly.
 

0007776

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They aren't participating in the wedding. They're providing a product and/or service. That's it. The relationship between those occupations and the marriage participants is purely business. If you try to make it otherwise then you're being very silly.
Were all the people that boycotted South African goods during the Apartheid era just being silly? After all it would have been purely business as the south african companies were just providing a product and/or service.
 

tgara

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They aren't participating in the wedding. They're providing a product and/or service. That's it. The relationship between those occupations and the marriage participants is purely business.
Not to them. They are being asked to provide services for a ceremony that goes against their religious convictions. Despite what you say or think about it, to them that's a form of participation, and they do not want to be involved with that. Why is that so difficult for you to grasp? To say otherwise shows that you know or feel nothing about people of faith. I guess for you and many others here, it's ok to have faith. Just don't do anything about it.
 

tgara

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Yeah. "Impacted" them in the sense that they had to acknowledge it. No other negative impact, other than the public backlash they got after throwing their temper tantrums.
http://insider.foxnews.com/2015/07/07/bakery-owners-fined-135000-refusing-make-gay-wedding-cake

Yeah, no other negative impact. Right.

Here's the way I see it. Don't like gay people, but they're coming in asking for a flower arrangement/cake/sandwiches for their wedding? Are they willing to pay for the service they're asking for? Then who cares? Do it, be done with it, get paid. You're not doing anything you don't normally do, save for the fact that the bride and the groom might be two chicks, or two dudes.
Yep, a lot of people see it that way too, and that's fine. But there are some that do not, and do not want to be involved in a transaction that condones a ceremony that goes against their faith. They are entitled to decline to be part of such a transaction. That homosexual couple will easily find another baker or florist or photographer that thinks like you do and is willing to take their business.
 
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tgara

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Cool. I can't wait until a Hindu denies me a steak at a restaurant! Sure, all I wanted was dinner, but their religious convictions override that...
That concept plays out now. Many Jewish delis don't serve pork products. Should a customer sue them for not serving a BLT?