New MBP—and Everything Else—is Threatening My Apple Purchasing Habits

Discussion in 'Apple, Inc and Tech Industry' started by BWhaler, Jan 17, 2017.

  1. BWhaler macrumors 68030


    Jan 8, 2003
    It's hard to explain why, but 2016 really weakened my "just buy Apple" resolve when it comes down to tech purchases.

    Buying from Apple was always my "don't think about it" default.

    It was just too much with the crappy battery life, weird and loud keyboard, thin obsession over things we actually care about which makes tools useful, and software that is losing features which used to support professional workflows (PDFs et al.) so it can be compatible with a phone.

    And the dongles. Expensive. Took away smart innovations like cable management and MagSafe.

    And yes, MacOS is superior to Windows. And icloud is a mixed bag, some better, most worst. But the first party apps are lagging. There just isn't much innovation from Apple in apps and cloud. Lots of catch-up. And the apps have tap-heavy interfaces and bugs galore. And Windows is getting better—fast.

    All of this is compounded with competition heating up. Yes, the future is iPads and iPhones, but Apple thinks it's getting there tomorrow, and they are forgetting the creative class on non-iOS devices will be around even longer. These are the influencers. It's why Microsoft is going after to them.

    I'm not saying I'm leaving tomorrow. I just bought a MBP and LG 5K display. I love the values of the company—privacy, worker rights, environment responsibility, etc.

    But I feel like the tables are beginning to turn...just like the mid-90s when it was clear there were better alternatives.
  2. tubeexperience, Jan 17, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2017

    tubeexperience macrumors 68040

    Feb 17, 2016
    Microsoft is the new Apple.

    Apple is the old Microsoft.
  3. sidewinder macrumors 68020


    Dec 10, 2008
    Northern California
    Then stop buying Apple and buy something else......
  4. raqball, Jan 17, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2017

    raqball macrumors 68000

    Sep 11, 2016
    I agree with much of what you said... But once the Apple defenders see this post it's going to be popcorn time so brace yourself... :p :apple: :eek:

    Personally I like the new keyboard but I can see where some won't.. It might be the shallow key travel or the noise that turns them off. It's not for everyone that's for sure..

    My nonTB gets pretty good battery life and I'm seeing about 10+ hours from it.. I don't really mind living the dongle life but the removal of the SD card slot was just plain stupid on Apple's part..

    I am now going into read only mode on this one.. Good luck and I hope we both make it out of this thread unscathed.. :D
  5. tubeexperience macrumors 68040

    Feb 17, 2016
    It's safe to say that when Steve Jobs died, Apple died along with him, at least spiritually.

    I mean, what are some exciting new products that Apple has released since Steve Jobs died that wasn't already coming down the pipe?
  6. Sanpete macrumors 68020

    Nov 17, 2016
    Phooey. Jobs would likely have been as pleased with the new MBPs as past ones.
  7. Kjung7 macrumors 6502

    Jan 18, 2013
    I agree that the level of innovation has stagnated a bit, but I think we're seeing that all across the board. For some reason people keep expecting these tech companies to come out with the next "iPhone." Innovation like the iPod and iPhone don't come around every year. It's only when the conditions are right that companies are able to do amazing things. As of now there's some innovation going on, such as folding/flexible screens, VR, and etc. but no company has yet been able to integrate all this yet because the research and ability isn't there yet.

    I think the MacBook Pro is a step into the future of computing, yes it has its quirks but it is in no way a signal of Apple's demise. Think back to the first iPhone. So many people laughed at it saying it can't even do half the things "smartphones" of that time could do. This was somewhat true, but today look what happened to those smartphone companies. As for the dongle situation, it's just temporary. They're not that big of a deal and companies are starting release more USB-C accessories. It's the price of moving forward in the tech world.

    I think Apple still offers the best and most stable integration between PC, phone, tablet, and wearable. This is my biggest reason for sticking with Apple. For example iMessages. I don't know any other tech company that has this level of syncing feature between all products. Now Microsoft has a good chance of achieving such integration especially if they release their rumored Surface phone, but they're lacking apps in the mobile sphere which is a huge obstacle they'll have to overcome.

    I do agree with your point about iOS lacking pro apps, but I think software devs are slowly coming around. Right now Apple has to figure out how to make iOS more powerful and flexible like Mac OS, and I think this is proving a little difficult for them. We'll see how iOS and Mac OS pans out but we'll probably see them becoming more and more similar every year.

    I don't think one product that doesn't work well for you signals a company's demise. I'm love Apple products, but if Microsoft does provide the level of stability and integration that Apple does then you'll see me debating wether or not to stay with Apple, but for now I'm very happy that all my devices just work with each other.
  8. venom600 macrumors 6502a

    Mar 23, 2003
    Los Angeles, CA
    People forget that to Jobs the perfect computer was a sealed box. The original Mac was based on that concept. The iPad and Macbook are the pinnacle of that ethos. If he was here right now and had to design a computer from the ground up, it would be an iPad. It is the ultimate expression of his philosophy. Everything Ives has done since his death has been in line with what Jobs would have done, for better or worse.

    This is a reach, so forgive me, but i'd go so far as to suggest that he didn't care about content creation at a professional level. It was a means to an end (where we are now). Apple didn't become the content creators choice under his leadership, and when he came back he worked with the market he was handed, and almost immediately introduced the incredibly limited iMac. The Cube (my favorite computer ever) was his idea of the perfect desktop, and in many ways it is the the precursor to the current Mac Pro.
  9. tubeexperience macrumors 68040

    Feb 17, 2016
    I am not talking about game-changers like the iPhone.

    I am talking about something other than rehashing existing products to be slightly thinner, have different colors and screen sizes, etc.
  10. leman macrumors G3

    Oct 14, 2008
    Few comments

    Battery life is same or better compared to the previous model for most of the users. Yes, some experience issues, which are most likely third-party software related.

    It will grow on you. Its just different. But ultimately, its more comfortable.

    Can you explain this one? How does 'thin' makes the laptop less useful? Its not just that it got thinner, it also got better performance, better display etc.

    Can you also explain this one? What exactly was lost in PDF support?

    Dongles were always a thing with Macs. This is the first time that we are moving to a dongle-free future with a single industry-standard connector for everything. Yes, right now its a transition period and it will hurt until the rest of peripherals catches on. However, you are forgetting that we have other smart innovations now. For instance, the new power brick is miles better than the old one. The detachable charging cable means that you can customise the cable length to your needs. Also, it means that the entire assembly is more robust. I have lost counts of Apple power adapters that had to be retired because the charging cable developed a bad crack. And while loss of MagSafe hurts, we can now charge through any port, using the same connector that we use to connect our peripherals/network etc.

    For instance, I got a single compact hub (price around $90) that does charging, HDMI, Ethernet, 3 USB-A as well as two card readers. My office setup is now a single cable that connects to my Mac. This is much more convenient than what we had earlier.

    All in all (especially where dongle complaints are considered), I believe that you let your momentary discomfort cloud the facts that the changes ultimately lead to a better computing future for everyone.
  11. Kjung7 macrumors 6502

    Jan 18, 2013
    I think the point of innovation in the tech world is to make things thinner, lighter, and faster. I'm sure many people aren't happy with the MacBooks or iPhones thinner but on the other hand many people are happy with that choice Apple made. For screen sizes Apple is just simply giving consumer choices. Not a bad thing in my opinion. Same thing with color. I'm sure for the color you're referring to the iPhone 7 jet black and matte, but these iPhones have upgraded specs and cameras. I'm enjoying he phone and really like the new color too. Is Apple squeezing money out of their customers probably, but that's the point of businesses and as long as I like the product I'll buy it. I think Apple isn't as daring as they are still putting out a lot of good stuff.
  12. leman macrumors G3

    Oct 14, 2008
    You mean like making the move to a single universal connector that is also capable of 40Gbs transfer speeds? Or offering seamless copy-paste functionality across devices? Or attempting to add new dimensions to how we interact with computers (pressure-sensitive touch input, application-configurable touch input)? Or attempting to raise the bar in display quality by pushing HiDPI and wide gamut? Yeah, such a shame that nobody is doing all that...
  13. tubeexperience macrumors 68040

    Feb 17, 2016
    While Apple has been working on universal clipboard and implanting USB Type-C, this is what the competitor, Microsoft, has been working on:

  14. xPad macrumors regular

    Dec 15, 2013
    Still should be. Nothing compares.

    It's similar to gamers, buying PC is the "don't think about it" default. Business users who live in Outlook, Windows is the default. You're in the Apple default camp.

    Nothing has changed with Apple, has something changed with you?

    It's because you spent too much time in the echo chamber. 10+ hours of battery life is not crappy. All MacBook Pros have had variable battery life depending on screen brightness and workload.

    CR ran a story using a flawed (but generally useful) test, which echoed some people with legitimate problems, and OS bugs (which has ALWAYS existed and ALWAYS will, so don't get worked up over that either) fed the echo chamber. Anyone who had great battery life was deemed a shill.

    The majority of MacBook Pro TB owners do not have crappy battery life.

    They switch to an industry standard cable that can do everything. You wanted two HDMI ports? You didn't have them, now you do. You wanted three Thunderbolt ports? You didn't, now you do. You wanted 4 USB ports (wasn't that a thing people complained about before?!?!), you didn't, now you do.

    You have four of whatever ports you want now.

    And being industry standard, you can buy any brand dongle you want. They aren't expensive. Apple is even discounting theirs while the rest of the industry catches up, and surpasses, Apple's offering.

    You know that illusion where a guy is walking up stairs that go up forever in a square? He's climbing higher, fast too. That's Windows when compared with the Mac.

    One day you Windows may serve your purposes better than macOS. At that time, for you, it could be a time to switch. But if you think they are just catching up, it's premature.

    Same as the above illusion. MS has been going after them forever. Still haven't captured them.

    You just said there weren't.

    Which brings us back to the beginning. You're caught up in the echo chamber. You like your Mac? You think it's better than any PC? Don't sweat the details. No computer is going to be perfect. The 4 USB-C port MacBook Pro is still better than any PC. No MagSafe? Yeah, that would be nice, but no PC has it either. But instead, you have four ports that can do anything.

    There will also always be individual things you'd prefer. E.G., the bezel on a specific Dell laptop, the GPU on an AlienWare laptop, etc., etc., but none of those things are in one PC. Mostly because they can't.
  15. leman macrumors G3

    Oct 14, 2008
    You mean an overpriced desktop all-in-one that uses mobile CPUs, is clearly targeted to creative professionals, but does not actually let you connect any professional external storage?

    Don't get me wrong, MS is the only other company in the industry that actually innovates. And the Surface line in general includes very interesting products. Its not what I want the computers to be, sure, and I don't understand some of their design choices (like pairing entry-level CPUs with fast mid-range GPUs), but its certainly innovative and maybe it will indeed be the future. Except the Surface Studio of course. Sorry, that thing is just a pointless. Impressive screen for sure, but not a general purpose computer and lacks IO for any serious creative work. But surely looks good on an ad.
  16. Kjung7 macrumors 6502

    Jan 18, 2013
    Like I said earlier, Microsoft is doing a great job, but they still lack the seamless vertical integration Apple has. For me this is far more important than a touchscreen desktop. Honestly the only novelty of the new surface is the ability to write/draw with a pen. I'm not a creative pro so that has no function for me. The Surface looks cool because it's a new design, but besides the touch input there's really nothing Microsoft has done differently. It's just a different design with a different OS. As for the Surface Book that is pretty cool, but once again I don't really have use for pen input on a laptop. My iPad fills in this area better because it has the apps and the integration with my other Apple products. I mainly use my Apple Pencil for taking notes in GoodNotes, but Windows doesn't seem to really have a similar app. I know there's OneNote but I gave it a shot and it wasn't really to my liking.

    I personally really enjoy universal copy/paste and USB-C. Everyone has a right to their opinion, but I don't think Apple is falling short in any way.
  17. tubeexperience macrumors 68040

    Feb 17, 2016
    Oh, let's see. USB 3, SD Card Reader

    Also, you consider universal clipboard and USB-Type C to be "innovations"?

    Surface Studio is not "pointless". Only an unimaginative person could have said that.

    The only reason you think that the ability to write/draw "has no function" for you is because you haven't use it yet for any extended time.

    The pen, in particular, is great for annotating the slides that professors show in classes.
  18. hawkeye_a macrumors 6502a


    Jun 27, 2016
    I have become a lot more critical of Apple in recent years, specifically under the leadership of Cook.

    Apple seems to want to appeal to "hip" rather than "geek". (Buying Beats, ignoring Macs, etc)

    I'm not sure where the mass market will be, nor which products/companies will be more popular.

    As a consumer, I ask myself is there another tech company making a *better* product, and at least for now, the answer is still a "no". Macs are IMHO still the best computers(software+hardware), and iPhones/iPads are still the best in their category as well.

    They aren't as great as they could have been, but they are still better than the rest. (Apple2010 vs Apple2016.... Apple2010 would win hands down).

    FWIW, my overall interest in the tech industry has diminished since Steve passed away. That void of passion is undeniable.
  19. leman macrumors G3

    Oct 14, 2008
    The Surface Studio is like one of those fashion show dresses. Stunning and interesting, but what about practical relevance? So its a computer for designers and content editors and I can imagine that they way its set up is great for those tasks. Until we see that there is no SSD option. Are those professionals supposed to work from a way slower HDD only? Well, ok, I guess they could work from their enterprise-level SAN storage, or at least using their fast external RAID array. Oh wait a moment, they can't even connect to it properly. USB 3.0? Not even USB 3.1? So we have a content creation station that can't be equipped with or even connected to fast storage? And while we are at it, why mobile CPUs in a machine targeted to content creators, people who are constantly asking for more performance? And not even fastest available mobile CPUs at that.

    In the end, when people tell me that Apple is sacrificing function for form and then point me to Surface Studio as an example of 'how it should be done', I can only suspect some sort of collective insanity. Its a very impressive technical demo, and probably the best display in all devices of its class, but it also comes with some massive limitations (especially for the target market) nor does it make much sense economically.
    --- Post Merged, Jan 18, 2017 ---
    Its because you are not looking properly. Apple is as geeky as they ever been. They are just doing some other things as well. Examples of recent geeky stuff: Metal, AppleFS, Xsan5, Deep Learning APIs, differential privacy, wide gamut displays, TochBar

    And they are not ignoring Macs. Apple can't be blamed for stagnating CPU landscape or complicated GPU situation. MBPs very just refreshed. Mac Pro with Vega and iMac is coming soon.
  20. maflynn Moderator


    Staff Member

    May 3, 2009
    That's a short term problem that is not strictly limited to Apple because any computer that embraces USB-C will have this issue and on the expense part, Apple had sliced in half the cost of the dongles.

    I would advocate, never to blindly buy any product based on a logo or name, especially given the cost of these products. Do your due diligence and see if it fits your needs.
  21. tubeexperience macrumors 68040

    Feb 17, 2016
    If the SSD/HDD Hybrid that comes with the Surface Studio isn't enough for you, you can buy a 2TB Samsung 960 Pro and put that in (assuming that you can afford it).
  22. Kjung7 macrumors 6502

    Jan 18, 2013
    It has no function for me because I have no need for it as a creative or as a student, because that is not my use case. I'm not ruling out the fact that it will not be useful, but for me it isn't. That begins said, I'm not discounting Microsoft's efforts here, they are putting out some nice hardware, but it isn't hardware that entices me to move away from Apple.
  23. hawkeye_a macrumors 6502a


    Jun 27, 2016
    My statement was not implying an absolute position at Apple.

    It was pointing out a noticeable(to me anyway) trend over the past 5 years. Yes they have those 'geeky' projects you mentioned, but there seems to be a LOT less of them today than there were 5 or even 10 years ago. And a lot more emphasis and attention on 'trendy'/'hip' features.
  24. SteveJUAE, Jan 18, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2017

    SteveJUAE macrumors 68020


    Aug 14, 2015
    Land of Smiles
    This not the case of Penrose stairs or echo chambers but more like talking to yourself in the mirror IMO

    Apple are a upmarket ~5% niche product and theirs nothing wrong with that but it's not a given superior product just an accumulation of personal preferences

    There is no industry standard cable that can do everything, USB-C cables has many variants. The wrong choice can cause damage.
    FYI MS SP4 has a Magsafe like type connection for the power cord
    So called vertical integration and cross platform ECO cost many in excess of $2000/24 months for relatively trivial convenience
    Apple 3 or 4 basic MAC format devices cannot for fill all users cases Windows options are just greater (Ignoring OS Preference) with a better chance of fit
    Many OEM's brought out USB-C dongles etc over a year back they are not all compatible with each oher

    If MacOS is your number 1 choice or a specific piece of software then that's fine warts and all but not to consider others objectively is daft as once distinct features are now eroded to almost nothing (like for like) and many more advancements continue in Windows platform where Apple refuse

    Thiers nothing wrong with being a proud Apple owner equally theirs nothing wrong with being a proud Ex-Apple owner :)

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