New Notebook Purchase HP Vs. Apple

Discussion in 'Buying Tips, Advice and Discussion (archive)' started by jiggie2g, Mar 4, 2004.

  1. jiggie2g macrumors 6502


    Apr 12, 2003
    Hello everyone,

    well I am in need of a new notebook and am trying to decide if i should wait for a 15in PowerBook or jus get a HP ZT3000 series Centrino notebook here's the comparision of the 2.

    Apple 15in PowerBook Alu Custom
    15.2in wide screen 1280 X 854
    1.25ghz G4
    ATI Mobility Radeon 9600 64MB DDR
    512 DDR2700 1Dimm exp. 2GB
    80GB HD 5400rpm
    Airport Ex & Bluetooth
    Lit keyboard
    2x superdrive DVD-R/RW
    3yrs apple care
    size 1.1in , 5.4lbs
    Total Cost $3,173.00 ...Ouch

    HP ZT3000 Centrino Custom Build
    Windows XP Pro
    1.6 Ghz Intel Pentium M
    15.4in Wide Screen 1280X800 or 1680X1050
    ATI Mobility Radeon 9200 64MB DDR
    512MB DDR 2700 1Dimm exp. 2GB
    80GB HD 5400rpm
    Intel Pro Wireless 2200 802.11b/g & Bluetooth
    Touch Sensitive Vertical Scrool
    2x DVD+R/RW
    3yrs HP Accidental plan
    size 1.3 , 6.5 lbs
    Total Cost $2,666

    Well as u can see there are both Pro's and Cons with these two. the Centrino Technology is Cutting Edge like it or not. i keep hearing that a 1.6 Moblie M is more like a 2.5-2.6Ghz P4. meanwhile the PB has a better Video Card in the ATI MR 9600 but i don't play games on PC i have an XBOX ,PS2 and GameCube. I would like 2 know if other than games would i see any other improvements from the faster card. but the diff in Processor speed is HUGE. the HP battery has a real life of 4-4 1/2hrs while the PB is more like 2 1/2-3 hrs need. at the sametime i LOVE OSX and iLife. I really just want the most for my Money and would like 2 know if the slower PB is really worth the extra $507 or should i just get the HP since it seems like a much better value.
  2. richland macrumors member

    Mar 2, 2004
    HP ZT3000 Centrino

    You will be happy and have extra money left over.

    I've heard nothing, but great things about the centrino.
  3. tomf87 macrumors 65816


    Sep 10, 2003
    For the Centrino, I do like the Pentium M. It provides great performance, equivalent to that of the 1.25 G4. I really don't see that many differences between the hardware. It is the software where you are going to realize the differences.

    For me, I'd rather pay a little more and get stability and most of my applications built in. I also like the underlying Unix layer of OS X. In addition, I'm not fond of having to concern myself with worms, virii, and patching the OS. In addition I found that OS X seems to handle my wireless network better since there are so many other WiFi networks around. My XP machine squawks some, but I can get it to connect. With my PB, I just tell it to connect to mine, and it ignores the others.

    Either way, I would bump the RAM to 1GB because both operating systems really start to soar at the 1GB level. And unless you are doing some heavy disk operations, I'd lower the hard drive speed to 4200rpm. It is true that it gets you more performance, but, for the dollar-conscious buyer, I don't think it gains you much. I recently got a PB with a 4200rpm drive and it has suited me just fine.
  4. numediaman macrumors 6502a

    Jan 5, 2004
    Chicago (by way of SF)
    What about software? I almost decided to abandon the Mac OS recently when my laptop went down (I've been an Apple customer for 21 years). I priced things out -- but it was software that finally convinced me to stay Mac. (You know the arguments: Mac OS (good), Mac hardware (bad); PC OS (bad), PC hardware (good), etc.)

    If software is not a problem then go with the HP -- Apple laptops are grossly outdated, will be for the foreseeable future.
  5. virividox macrumors 601


    Aug 19, 2003
    Manila - Nottingham - Philadelphia - Santa Barbar
    well unless u wanna by another g4 laptop (i personally wouldnt) then go ahead i think ull be happy if u do

    but if u wanna save money then go hp

    but hey a mac is a mac. and i like the fact it works smoothly
  6. zamyatin macrumors regular

    Jul 15, 2003
    Don't know much about that Centrino, but I would guess it is not faster than the G4, despite clock speed differences. While I do like HP (would be my top choice for an x86 box), I suspect the build quality is not as high as the Powerbook. Again, speculation, but it comes from previous work experience.

    As mentioned already, the software is going to make the biggest difference. The pain of working with Windows must have some cost value, even if difficult to quantify. The fact that the Mac ships with a huge amount of usable software, and much of it multimedia based, compared with the paltry selection on most Windows boxes, will account for a large price discrepancy. Take a close look at the software bundles each offers. And don't think you can just pirate the software for the Windows box; that is a very bad idea. See the BSA banner trying to convince people to turn each other in, on MacRumors today? (Though you can use lots of open source apps like The GIMP, OpenOffice, Mozilla, Audacity, etc, these will be available for both platforms.)

    Give a look at some refurbished Macs too, you can get a lower price for almost no additional risk. Finally, remember that most of us Mac users stretch out our hardware to be useful for four to six years, while most x86 stuff has a life expectancy closer to three. There's the hidden cost for you!
  7. richland macrumors member

    Mar 2, 2004

    Myth ;)
  8. switchingGeek macrumors member

    Oct 11, 2003
    Dallas, Texas
    reasons to go with Mac -
    ease of use, zero conf on most things. Since you don't seem to mind spending the money much, the PBook may be the way to go.

    reason to go with HP -
    A few more applications. Cost of course - you can probably add another 1Gb of RAM with the money saved.
    Another poster said that you can do without the 5400RPM drive - DONT!!
    Please keep it at least 5400 - you'll get a good speed boost out of that. Esp on bootup etc. when there is a lot of disk activity.

    The processor speed is not really that much of an issue - the Pentium M at 1.6GHz will perform like a 1.8GHz G4 (probably). And as you are not going to use it for gaming, you will find that you never notice the difference.

    I switched from a 2200 Athlon XP with 1.5Gb of RAM as my desktop, to a 1GHz G4 with 768MB of RAM. I can barely notice a difference, of course, I'm not stupid enough to run my simulations on my notebook. Different needs, different solutions.

    Mostly I browse, code, powerpoint, document etc. For all these purposes OS X has been better than RH 9.0, sad as it sounds. Also wireless connectivity, and bluetooth on the G4 is very very well integrated. The HP has nowhere near that level of integration, and Win XP will make you cry at least once.

    My roomie has a HP P4 2.4GHz laptop (at 9lbs it is nominally a laptop ;), and he has no end of trouble configuring it. He is doing an MS in CE, and has two years of experience as a System/Network admin! All of us in the house are hardcore geeks, and we face many problems that are non-trivial.

    So far OS X has not given me any such problems. So while XP is still plug-and-pray, OS X is truly plug and play.

    I switched only in Aug 2003, so this is a short term experience of course...

    I thought long and hard about going to a Mac, after spending 3 years with RH, and 3 yrs with Windows before that. I have to say I have absolutely no regrets about the Mac. My roomie who has a Toshiba now, will probably switch to a Mac on his next purchase.
  9. Edot macrumors 6502

    Jan 29, 2002
    Battery Life?

    Where are you getting the figures for battery life? I can't seem to find it on HP's site and Apple says 4.5 hours. We all know that isn't true under normal use, but where did you get the 4-4.5 for the HP. If it is off the manufacture site then I am sure they do the same battery rating as Apple. Therefore you will not see 4-4.5 hours with normal use.

    This was found on CNET:

    --HP Battery life was 223 minutes or 3.7 hours.

    "To measure mobile application performance and battery life, CNET Labs uses BAPCo's MobileMark 2002. MobileMark measures both application performance and battery life concurrently using a number of popular applications (Microsoft Word 2002, Microsoft Excel 2002, Microsoft PowerPoint 2002, Microsoft Outlook 2002, Netscape Communicator 6.0, WinZip Computing WinZip 8.0, McAfee VirusScan 5.13, Adobe Photoshop 6.0.1, and Macromedia Flash 5.0)"

    --Apple Powerbook 15" Battery life was 2.5 hours.

    "To drain the battery of an Apple notebook, CNET Labs plays a DVD movie in full-screen mode with the sound on."

    I really don't think this is a fair test. I am not sure which is more battery intensive, but decoding a DVD and displaying it full screen with sound seems more intensive than using MS Office and Browsing the web.
  10. Counterfit macrumors G3


    Aug 20, 2003
    sitting on your shoulder
    I think you should also consider the weight, and exterior of each laptop. The PB weighs over a pound less, and is almost a 1/4" thinner. Also, how likely is it for something on the outside of the laptop to get caught on something? The only things extruding (normally) from the PB are the button to open the display, and to some degree, the PCMCIA slot/eject button. On the HP, well, slots, bulges, and switches abound.

    As for battery life, I could get about 2.5 hours watching some DivX shows/movies, I just never have the time or inclination to do it while on battery.

    You have to ask yourself, is $507 worth a computer where every little detail is labored over for months and everything works (or at least should be working, barring manufacturing faults), or one where slightly less time was spent on its design, seeming like a few components were slapped together and then had a price put on them. Then think about the software, you get free stuff, and you won't have to deal with Windows at all.
  11. Rower_CPU Moderator emeritus


    Oct 5, 2001
    San Diego, CA
    Got facts to back it up, or are you just trolling?
  12. richland macrumors member

    Mar 2, 2004

    Does he have facts to back that up or is he just trolling?
  13. Rower_CPU Moderator emeritus


    Oct 5, 2001
    San Diego, CA
    Given the frequency of this topic on this site, his comment is inline with what most members report. Since you're new here you wouldn't know that.

    Your comment, however, appears to be a troll. Back up your statements or expect to be challenged.

    So, got facts?
  14. jiggie2g thread starter macrumors 6502


    Apr 12, 2003
    1st of all i'd like to thank everyone for thier input. Well lets see if i can answer some of your replys well to say a 4200rpm drive is adequate is just nuts i actually think 5400rpm should be bare minimum as i would get a 7200 rpm drive if i could but it is not availble for that model. also to say a 1.25 G4 is comparable to a Pentium M at any speed is also nuts , Let's face it the G4 had it's day and was pretty much obselete 2yrs ago, everything now is just overclocked egg frying stuff.

    I am currently a Mac user and have been for the past 2yrs. I own a 15in iMac 800Mhz G4 1st Gen 512MB ram. I love it but now it's starting 2 show it's age. I am not tryin to be Pro PC just stating the facts and the obvious that Apple Laptops are grossly outdated hardware wise. i have observed the improvement of PC's over past 2yrs since my iMac Purchase and at that time march 2002 2ghz P4's were cutting edge meanwhile apple had just reached Dual 1ghz , now Fast Foward 2yrs PC's are at 3.4Ghz, AMD has an Awesome 64bit chip. Granted Apple now has the G5 (were still waiting 4 that 2nd gen update Apple) but we are still barely keeping up with that chip i have seen the Beanchmarks in Macworld Mag and PC mag those AMD Athlon 64 chips and Intel Prescott just spank the G5 the worst thing is that they are Single processors.

    the Laptops are even worse than that. i'm not even going to go there. while I do not completely blame Apple for this but they should have seen this coming Long Long Ago and not wait till the last min for IBM to Bail them out of the rat hole thier in, apple is laughing with one foot in the grave. Steve Jobs talks about how great the iPod is doing meanwhile he doesn't talk about how market share is now below 3% and dropping. Motorola really did a number on poor apple, in the biggest screw over 4 apple since Gates screwed over Jobs 20yrs ago. i fear it maybe 2 little 2 late 4 apple 2 ever get good in the desktop market again. the world is just filled with 2 many idiots who don't know Sh*t about computers and unfortunately they represent the majority of Comp users , the Wal-Mart creatures , All they know that Mac's Suck and AOL is Cool .....LMAO.

    Ultimately I see Apple becoming a Consumer Electronics Company. Sony and Apple ....SonyApple??? which would make sense being that the Vaio comp line has pretty much gone to hell. Just a Thought people.

    But last yes software is the only thing that makes me hesitant to go back to Windows Comp. Atleast iTunes is on windows which is the prog i use most but i also see iLife and the iSight being ported to the PC as there is just to much money to be made with those apps on the other side ,iLife would be the Dominant creative Suite for the common home user on the windows side. iSight would sell crazy now that AIM will soon be Fully Compatible with iChat but they need to bring it down to $99 for a sweet spot. and after all this i am still undecided but will get back to you all as soon as i have made up my Mind, Thank You Everyone.

    P.S. In reply to Edot's Comments about the HP's battery Life look in the User Reviews of the very same Cnet review page u used and u will see users comment about a Bios problem that had been cutting the HP's Battery Life to 3hrs , it seems that the glitch has been corrected with current in models shipped and an update i believe has been posted. Actually HP's battery Life Claims are 5hrs which i myself do not believe. Just go to Cnet and Type "ZT3000" in the Search bar.
  15. richland macrumors member

    Mar 2, 2004

    I need no links to prove personal experiences of mine and friends. SO, believe me or not, I am talking to jiggie2g and helping him decide, not helping you in your decision to find out if I am a troll or not.
  16. Rower_CPU Moderator emeritus


    Oct 5, 2001
    San Diego, CA
    I'll take that as a "no".
  17. Naimfan Suspended


    Jan 15, 2003

    I'd have to say get the PB if it does everything you want it to. For me, the ownership experience is just far superior. I use a Pismo, which is one of the ancestors to the current PBs. I also just used one of my law schools Dell desktops for a little while--had to convert a WordPerfect document to Word format so I could use it on my PB. And I have to say it was a HUGE relief to get back to the Mac.

    And I think that Mac laptops generally have a longer useful life than Wintel machines. Granted, my impression is based on anecdotal evidence from friends and people I know at school, but the friends that have Wintel machines invariably have more problems with their machines than the people that own Macs. And not having to worry about viruses as much is a huge bonus.....

    Best of luck whatever you do!

  18. Koodauw macrumors 68040


    Nov 17, 2003
    I agree. I think design build counts for alot. I had a dell laptop before my powerbook, and it came no where near the design of this thing. It made me mad to look at it. Anyways, some people could care less about design and only care about whats under the hood. I know I look at my powerbook everyday, and think, man was that sure a good call.
  19. iJon macrumors 604


    Feb 7, 2002
    your already doing a good job, but ill remind you, ignore him. the life expectancy is not a proven fact, but very much indeed a real factor. it may not be those exact years to some people (it is to me from my experience over the years) and the pc's do indeed loose value or just start goign crazy after so many years. i still have a mac classic that i could go fire up right now and turn it into a server with the push of a button (now replaced with an xserve)

    but these threads do get pretty stupid most of the time. jiggie keeps answering his own questions. he can get this baddass hp with all the latest and greatest, or he can get a badass powerbook (in a few fields not as good as the hp) but you have access to the most badass software. you have itunes, iphoto, imovie, idvd, final cut, dvd studio, and all that good stuff, plus you have the stabilty or os x and all that good stuff. you said you love OS X and iLife, what else do you need to do. what you need to do is simply write down everything you want to do on a computer, and then see if the hp or pb does better on each one. if you want little big longer battery life, play games, play solitaire, run that windows only program then get the pc. if you want to have a sleek slim package that weighs a pound less, have the powerful iLife apps free and all that good stuff then go with the powerbook, this is a no brainer and shouldnt require any help on our parts, you know what you need to do.
  20. richland macrumors member

    Mar 2, 2004

    Who buys a PC and cares if it holds value? lol

    Your welcome.
  21. iJon macrumors 604


    Feb 7, 2002
    you'd be surprised. i have lots of customers who are thrilled they can get a good amount of cash back for their old mac towards a nicer mac or whatever they want. we usually have to tell the pc users to give it to a school and trash it or whatever else they want to do. and just out of curiousity, do you even have a mac or are you here to just fight the war? lol :rolleyes:

  22. richland macrumors member

    Mar 2, 2004

    I'm currently learning the OS for a job.

    What war are we fighting?

    I don't understand you or that other guy. I offered my voice for the poster and you and that assistant moderator attacked me.

    Lets grow up and act like adults shall we? I think the PC/Mac wars are at a nuetral.
  23. Rower_CPU Moderator emeritus


    Oct 5, 2001
    San Diego, CA
    If you haven't noticed in your 2 days here, there is lots of positive discussion about the strengths and weaknesses of the Mac and PC platforms here. But, unfounded claims on either side will meet with challenge.

    It's not an attack.

    PS. There's no "assistant" next to my title.
  24. richland macrumors member

    Mar 2, 2004

    Name calling like "troll" would be an attack.

    Simply asking for a link or proof would have been much more civil.

    I read Demi-God and saw it as meaning assistant.
  25. Rower_CPU Moderator emeritus


    Oct 5, 2001
    San Diego, CA
    I asked if you were trolling, I didn't call you a troll. There's a difference.

    I gave you the chance to show you had something productive to add to the discussion - a chance you've yet to take advantage of.

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