New SSD and upgrade 10.6.8 to El Capitan - how?

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by Kristina85, Jan 20, 2016.

  1. Kristina85 macrumors member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    #1
    Hello guys,
    Allow me a few quick questoins: here's a mid-2010 Macbook pro with Snow Leopard 10.6.8. Love the system but can't use some of the latest applications. So finally decided to upgrade directly to El Capitan. I've heard that the system is equally stable and fast even on a mid-2010 macbook (2.4Ghz Intel Core Duo). For this update I also got a new Samsung EVO 500GB SSD + 8GB RAM.

    My thinking is: 1.take out the old drive. 2. Insert new memory + SSD, re-format, 3.load Snow Leopard from my CDs (I got them when I bought MBP back in 2011), 4. Download from Apple and upgrade to El Capitan....5. Only now migrate old data from HDD to SSD (for HDD I have an external hard drive enclosure ready).
    I want to have a clean install of the whole system (have not attempted it with OS X yet).

    Now what I don't know:
    a)if I connect my new system to the old HDD, in what format will the data be? Will I be able to simply use paste and copy to move files (docs, pictures etc.)? What about apps?
    b)If I use Time Machine for recovery - can do only a partial recovery after I went through 1-4 steps. I.e. with a new clean install of El Capitan as my OS?
    c)Can I access Time Machine and chose only the applications and data I want get back onto the new computer?
    c) If I don't like El Capitan..can I simply reformat the whole SSD, and upload Snow Leopard from the CDs again?

    In short, I am not sure how Time Machine works + what restore options I have and which is the best (given that I want to have a clean install and upgrade to El Capitan). Btw. I do have a 3rd external drive where I am making back-up copies of the current system.
    Also, most of my Apps, I am able to reinstall fresh by downloading them from the web. But for Itunes, for example, I want it the way it is now -I spent hours on organizing that app and music folder.


    Please enlighten me on how to restore and what options I have.
    Kristina
     
  2. treekram macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
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    Honolulu HI
    #2
    First off - are you going to install an Evo 850 or an Evo 840? There could be problems with the Evo 840 and the 2010 MBP. I would guess you're doing the 850 but it's good to check.

    A Snow-Leopard disk should just appear as another disk once you put it in the disk enclosure and connect it.

    If you don't like El Capitan, I would just wipe out the SSD and clone over the old HDD to the SSD (you would need to find clone software that works with Snow Leopard). Or you can do a restore from TM - just make sure you remember what date you had your last Snow Leopard backup.

    For what you want to do, I would skip a Time Machine restore to the SSD because a copy may be sufficient.

    There could be problems with trying to copy over an old application to a new machine. 1) It may not work. 2) Some applications do not include all of the files needed to work in their own folder. Some use /Library/Application Support for some files, for example. You can try running the application from the old HDD and see if it works. If it doesn't, it very well could be easier to upgrade or find an alternative than trying to make the old application work in El Capitan. For me, just going from Yosemite to El Capitan made some applications unusable (had to upgrade or find another application).

    I don't use iTunes for my music but I think trying to run a version as old as the one on Snow Leopard on El Capitan will not work. Hopefully somebody else can help you with copying over your data. In general, I would not try to copy over any of the Snow Leopard Apple apps to El Capitan.

    Besides the Apple apps, what other apps do you use? People can probably give you advice as to whether it will work or not.
     
  3. CoastalOR macrumors 68000

    CoastalOR

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    Oregon, USA
    #3
  4. Kristina85 thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    #4
    Treekram, thanks for the exhaustive answer. My SSD is a 850EVO SAMSUNG. So that should be fine.
    Also I am now confused...i wanted to do a clean install (instead of upgrade) but it seems that many people say there's no point in doing that unless your system has some problems. Mine - still Snow Leopard - has none. Only just recently the MBP started heating up (though this might be also because I never cleaned the fans..another thing I'll do in this update once I open it).
    So my issue here really is: Should I do a "clean OS X" install or just an upgrade and then somehow migrate the data?

    btw. I am not set on using Time Machine at all...I just thought that would have been the easiest way?
    --- Post Merged, Jan 20, 2016 ---
    CoastalOR - Thank you!
    So are you saying, clean install of OS X on the SSD and then Migration Assistant?
    In this case, will my Itunes look the way they are now?

    Of what if I were first to upgrade on the current machine to El Capitan (i.e. Snow Leopard to OS El Capitan) and then close and insert the new disk, would that be better?

    FYI: I have almost no application that I could not download from the web and reinstall again.
    I am using for example, Firefox Mozilla, Dropbox, VLC etc.

    Is there a way how to, say, try El Capitan first on the SSD and only if I didn't like it, go back to Snow Leopad? For example, I could keep the old HDD + the system on it the way it is now.....configer the new SSD to El Capitan + migrate somehow the data...and if I didn't like it I would simply erase the SSD....and use my old HDD to go back to Snow Leopard?

    Sorry but I am still confused as to how the migration of stuff works - which applications are kept, which not..what will remain preserved etc.
    I simply have now 3 hard drives (new SSD, old HDD with Snow Leopard and anoter external drive with TM back-ups on it). I am not sure how to go about the new set-up.
     
  5. JTToft macrumors 68040

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    Apr 27, 2010
    Location:
    Aarhus, Denmark
    #5
    - Do what you feel comfortable with. Personally, I like to start with a new OS X install when upgrading/changing storage devices and then restore data using Time Machine.
    You could also just clone the entire drive onto the SSD and then upgrade, or upgrade first and then clone.
     
  6. Kristina85 thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    #6
    JJTToft,
    thanks...but if I do a clean install..then using Time Machine to restore data...what is it precisely that I will restore? The whole architecture of the drive including the apps? and the way my Itunes are organized?Can I use TM if I do a back-up on Snow Leopard and then trie to use TM to restore on El Capitan?
    And can I select what to restore and how? How complicated is this and why do people prefer cloning of a drive instead?
    I think I still don't understand it..we have a migration assistant, Time Machine, third party cloning software....which of this to use and why? (what are the advantages and disadvantages of this).
     
  7. treekram macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Honolulu HI
    #7
    I'm not familiar with the the Dropbox app works, but for Firefox and VLC, yes, it's easier to just download the latest versions. If that's the extent of the 3rd-party apps you use, then Migration Assistant is a good choice - you should choose to not migrate the applications (the standard Apple apps will be on the computer and you're re-installing the 3rd-part apps). In the following document, in step 3 you can select what to migrate.

    https://support.apple.com/kb/PH21974?locale=en_US

    Yes, you can try El Capitan and go back to Snow Leopard if you don't like El Cap. Just keep your current HDD safe and don't write to it. A lot of people here use Carbon Copy Cloner. There's a 30-day free trial. You can use it to clone from the Snow Leopard disk to the SSD (you'd have to get the 3.5x version). In order to do this, you'd need to boot from the HDD which will boot Snow Leopard.

    https://bombich.com/

    The other alternative would be to install from the Snow Leopard disks and then have it do a Time Machine restore - presuming you haven't done a Time Machine backup in El Capitan yet.
     
  8. JTToft macrumors 68040

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    #8
    (1) Absolutely everything, except OS X itself (which you'll have installed yourself). All your documents, applications, etc., even the most minute settings within System Preferences.
    (2) Definitely.
    (3) To some degree, I believe. But that's not really the point. The point is to transfer everything.
    (4) Not at all.
    (5) Because it also includes the OS and so is one task that does everything. Some think it's easier, some don't.
     
  9. CoastalOR macrumors 68000

    CoastalOR

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    Oregon, USA
    #9
    The Apple link I provided has details on what Migration Assistant will transfer. Here is a quote from the link "Use Migration Assistant to copy all of your documents, apps, user accounts, and settings to a new Mac from another computer."

    I would recommend leaving the current HDD software installation as-is so you have a fallback. I'm assuming your external enclosure is USB and since your 2010 does not have USB3 that means the external enclosure would have to connect at USB2 speeds. It is slower but doable. Ideally, install the new SSD in the external enclosure, format the SSD for Mac, install El Capitan (use a new account name so there is not a duplication when Migration Assistant copies your User Account), and finally use Migration Assistant to transfer your data to the SSD. Check out how things are working. Just keep in mind USB2 is slower, so startup and shutdown will be especially slow.

    If the software installs went well, then remove you old internal HDD and replace it with the new fully functional SSD.
     
  10. Kristina85, Jan 20, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2016

    Kristina85 thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    #10
    I see, JTToft,
    so I think we are getting to the bottom of it. The answers have helped.
    Basically what I will do now....first do a full Time Machine back-up. Then remove the HDD. Put in a new SSD....and do a clean install. Once I have OS El capitan running, I will plug in and will do a full restore with Time Machine - the advantage, this will allow me to have a "clean install" + all my data back on the SSD.
    There is probably a possibility that some of the apps restored from a time machine won't work, right? In this case I will have to delete them and install new ones (or upgrade etc.)
    is that what you're suggesting? (this makes a lot of sense to me).

    Now as to the clean install on the SSD: do I have to first install Snow Leopard from my disks and then just update to El Capitan? (well this would be essentially not a fresh install...but a fresh install of 10.6.8 with an update to 10.11.11). Or is there a way how to go directly to El Capitan..i.e. jump the Snow Leopard step? (i.e. download El Capitan on my machine now and do some kind of El Capitan USB boot version from which to clean install the system on the SSD?)
    --- Post Merged, Jan 20, 2016 ---
    Great got it, thanks CoastOR. With your and JTToft help, I think I know know how to proceed. He suggests that I use TM for the restore once I have El Capitan on the new SSD. You seem to be suggesting that I use Migration Assistant.Other than that, it seems that you guys are in syns. What is really the difference between the two?
    Also..it seems that JJoft suggest I install the SSD into my MBP and then the system....you suggest that I install it externally first. Wouldn't though the first option be faster? (i.e. the Mac will be already running on good speed..whereas externally I will have to rely on USB 2 speed?)
     
  11. CoastalOR macrumors 68000

    CoastalOR

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    #11
    I theory there is not that much difference. I have just have had good luck with Migration Assistant. Some people have had problems restoring from Time Machine, but it SHOULD work fine.
     
  12. Kristina85 thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    #12
    I see...CoastalOR, also one more question: ..it seems that JJoft suggest I install the SSD into my MBP and then the system....you suggest that I install it externally first. Wouldn't though the first option be faster? (i.e. the Mac will be already running on good speed..whereas externally I will have to rely on USB 2 speed?). Btw. Oregon is a great state...beautiful, just a bit rainy:)
     
  13. emilioestevez Suspended

    emilioestevez

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    Aug 25, 2015
    #13
    snow leopard was the last GREAT version of OS X
     
  14. snaky69 macrumors 603

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    #14
    Your optical drive is slower than USB, so it wouldn't make all that much of a difference. Both methods work.
     
  15. CoastalOR macrumors 68000

    CoastalOR

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    #15
    I recommended installing the SSD externally first because of 2 reasons:
    1) It is new unproven hardware. If there is a problem with the SSD hardware then you would have to open the MBP up again to remove it and replace you HDD back in the MBP.
    2) The internal drive ribbon cable can become fragile and degraded over time. Sometimes the cable has degraded marginally to work at the slower HDD data rates but not function properly at the faster SSD data rates. If you put the SSD in immediately and have problems then you do not know if you have a SSD hardware problem or a cable problem. If you install the SSD externally first and get it functional then install internally and see a problem then that would point to needing to replace the cable.

    I realize it would be faster to install the SSD immediately but it also could be more trouble if things do not go as planned.

    It comes down to doing what you are comfortable with.

    BTW, I like being in OR even though it can be a little more liquid sunshine. :)
     
  16. Kristina85 thread starter macrumors member

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    Dec 29, 2012
    #16

    I see, that makes perfect sense. And yes I see your point with the idea that if there's a problem, installing it first externally is a safer way to go - also better for diagnostic. I just can't wait to have my SSD plugged in properly:):):) (the MBP should apparently really pick up on speed:)

    But I think I'll do the external thing first.
    So to summarize: 1. install El Capitan on SSD as external drive first 2. run the system from it and see it works properly. If so, 3. do the swaping of the drives 4. use TM or Migrant Assistant to get the data on the SSD once it's in my MBP.

    And yes, OR is great. But as someone who used to live in Cali, I unerstand why you'd like more sunshine:):)
    btw. it's time to sleep for me here.
    --- Post Merged, Jan 20, 2016 ---
    Yep, I've heard that too...but many people say that El Capitan is not bad either..in fact that it might be the second best OS X in recent years. Would others agree?
    I would not dump Leopard if I could run applications on it....but some of them simply require now 10.7. and higher. Moreover, I think I will really like the "split screen" thing. I am writing a lot of papers and being able to have a paper in one window and type in another will be useful.
     
  17. JTToft macrumors 68040

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    Aarhus, Denmark
    #17
    - You seem to have the hang of it pretty well by now.
    For the actual El Cap installation itself, I recommend downloading if off the App Store and then using DiskMaker X (completely straight-forward) to create an installation medium on a USB stick, SD card or whatever.

    - My machine came with 10.6.8. Absolutely loved it, rock solid. But El Cap is just more modern and feature rich. It's better in most respects.
     
  18. CoastalOR macrumors 68000

    CoastalOR

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  19. Kristina85 thread starter macrumors member

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    Dec 29, 2012
    #19
    That is fantastic to hear. As I said I was very reluctant to switch but now it's time. For me, there's another feature in El Cap that I want to try....this will not be useful to many of yout but to me it's critical as I work with Japanese. El Cap has a new input system for Japanese. I want to see how it works.
    Also, in Leopard I loved my "Dictionary" app. Probably not many users know about it - unless you are a Japanese - but the dictionary was very good for that language. I wonder about El Cap and its support for languages.
    --- Post Merged, Jan 21, 2016 ---
    Yes, thank you.
     
  20. Fishrrman macrumors G3

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    Feb 20, 2009
    #20
    OP:
    If I was in your position, here's how I'd do it:

    1. Get a 2.5" external USB3 enclosure -- which will hold your original HDD eventually (but not yet).
    Here's one I'll personally recommend:
    http://www.amazon.com/MiniPro-Exter...d=1453391576&sr=8-1&keywords=minipro+2.5+usb3

    2. Get the SSD of your choice. IMPORTANT: DON'T spend extra $$$ for a "top-of-the-line" SSD, because ALL of them will yield performance that's "about the same" in a 2010 MacBook, because it has an older SATA-2 bus.
    I'd recommend Crucial or Sandisk.

    3. Once you have both of the above, put the SSD into the external USB enclosure. This will serve as a temporary home while you "prep and test" the new SSD.

    4. Connect the SSD, and initialize it with Disk Utility (use HFS+ with journaling enabled). Don't put anything else on it yet.

    5. Are you able to download El Capitan while still using 10.6.8? Not sure about this. Internet recovery might work (never tried it with my own 2010 MBPro). But if you can, here's what I'd do:

    6. Download El Capitan, and direct the installer to install onto the SSD, and NOT onto the internal drive.

    7. At the close of the install process, the "setup assistant" should offer you the choice to migrate accounts, apps, settings and data from your older drive. At this point, select your MBPro's internal drive as the source, and let setup assistant do its thing.

    8. When done, reboot and choose the external SSD by holding down the option key immediately after the boot tone, and keep holding it down until the startup manager appears. Then select the SSD with the pointer and hit return.

    9. You -should- boot from the external SSD. When you get to the finder, check to be sure by choosing "about this Mac" from the Apple menu.

    10. Take a look around. Try out apps. Does everything look ok? Even if some older software may not run, you want a good boot and access to your account.

    11. If everything looks good, now it's time to "do the drive swap". You can see what's involved by going to ifixit.com:
    https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/MacBook+Pro+13-Inch+Unibody+Mid+2010+Hard+Drive+Replacement/4305

    12. BE SURE YOU USE THE RIGHT TOOLS FOR THE JOB! You'll need a Phillips #00 driver and a TORX T-6. You can find these cheap at hardware stores, Home Depot, Lowe's, or online.

    13. The drive swap is VERY EASY, anyone can do it. Hardest part is removing all the screws on the back of the MacBook and putting them back in later.

    14. Put the old drive into the USB3 enclosure, you can use it as a backup, extra storage, etc.

    Hope this helps!
     
  21. Kristina85 thread starter macrumors member

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    Dec 29, 2012
    #21

    Fishrrman, yes it does!! thanks.
    I got already some tips on this from CoastOR and JJToft. They are both suggesting pretty much the same procedure. So you are all in sync and so am I:). I actually could get the OS El Capitan from the App Store. Though had to first figure ou how to get rid of cannot access/find macstore message. I had to do a fairly extensive 10.6.8. manual combo upgrade. So I am ready - will do everything over the weekend as I need to do some work now. But really excited to get it done and see how my MBP will perform with a SSD in it, 8GB instead of 4GB, fans free of dust, and a new OS. Yep all that I am planning to do:). Haven't really updated or done anything with the system since I bought it.
     

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