New Windows: Longhorn

vniow

macrumors G4
Jul 18, 2002
10,266
0
I accidentally my whole location.


What is MS's obsession with blue?
Blue Dcreens of Death, XP's horrendous attempt at Aqua, blue blue blue.
I mean I like blue, but not THAT much.
I was hoping that XP was sort of a trial or something, but now I see that they're keeping with the theme, blech.
There's three different 'themes' that come with XP, default (blue), olive green
and silver, which isn't that bad.
Jeeze MS, at least somewhat consider people's opinions before you release it, you made that mistake once with XP don't repeat it.
If you're going to control 95% of the world's desktops, at least make it look good. Blech.
 
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Hemingray

macrumors 68030
Jan 9, 2002
2,914
26
Ha ha haaa!
Wow, if that ain't the most blatant rip-off of OS X I dunno what is... oh well! This is good, because it means Apple will have to do something even better. :cool:
 
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SilvorX

macrumors 68000
May 24, 2002
1,701
0
'Toba, Canada
meh, if its supposed to be out in '05, udd expect it to be alot different looking..but then again theyre gonna be redesigning the ui alot....
 
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mac15

macrumors 68040
Dec 29, 2001
3,099
0
looks ok, now, needs refining, I wish we could see some new features, not refined ones
 
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SilvorX

macrumors 68000
May 24, 2002
1,701
0
'Toba, Canada
Originally posted by mac15
looks ok, now, needs refining, I wish we could see some new features, not refined ones
lol "we could see some new features"
well thats pretty new ui-ish concidering this is a REALLLLLY early build of longhorn, about this stage of xp, it still had the same ui as win 2k (with win 2k about screen)
 
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sparkleytone

macrumors 68020
Oct 28, 2001
2,307
0
Greensboro, NC
Originally posted by SilvorX

lol "we could see some new features"
well thats pretty new ui-ish concidering this is a REALLLLLY early build of longhorn, about this stage of xp, it still had the same ui as win 2k (with win 2k about screen)
in fact, the UI for XP wasnt settled on until a measly 6 months before GM, so this POS should go through many evolutions of plagiarised UI in order to stay current with MacOS.
 
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madamimadam

macrumors 65816
Jan 3, 2002
1,281
0
Originally posted by SilvorX

lol "we could see some new features"
well thats pretty new ui-ish concidering this is a REALLLLLY early build of longhorn, about this stage of xp, it still had the same ui as win 2k (with win 2k about screen)
It was the same deal with MacOS X

You will all remember OS X.0 Server.... it was nothing but a glorified MacOS9.
 
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madamimadam

macrumors 65816
Jan 3, 2002
1,281
0
I loved the following 2 posts:

By MacUser:

It's gonna make me feel right at home. Those rounded windows, the dropshadows under the menus, the nice stripes in the display properties window, heck: even the duck login avatar and the "lovely new picture" in My Documents: it's my default desktop picture. And I just can't stop wanking to my clock. Burn DVD? sure! Haven't used CD's to back up my huge stuff for over a year now.
No need to tell you just how much seeing these screenshots consolidates my world view. No need to tell you what inspired this 'new' look. Hey! No need to wait for LongPorn!
get a Mac today and enjoy all of the above. And you know what? burning a DVD actually works. every time.
want to see what I'm talking about? see this image:
http://www.geocities.com/noms4me/macdesktop.jpeg

By Shaurz:

Right on mate. I'm switching to OS X as soon as I can.

I mean it's the coolest looking thing ever, and it runs on BSD! How can you get better than that??? Well, three buttoned mouse...

But I'm a cheapskate. My PC cost £300 to build, and you know how much Windows cost me, wink wink. Any chance of building a custom PPC system that would run Mac OS X?


You guys rock :)

Saying this, I do not know why shaurz is so anti-XP. They were speaking in a previous post about how they use the "classic" theme in XP but, personally, I would take the XP theme over the classic theme anyday if it was not so bloody slow under VPC.
 
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Switcher2001

macrumors member
Oct 20, 2002
64
0
Phoenix, AZ
Dated Desktop Metaphor???

I'm surprised no one yet commented on this little quotation, but maybe that's because no one scrolled down to the bottom of the page.

PS : heres a quote from Pauls site that amused us particularly "Longhorn will feature a task-based (or "iterative") interface that goes far beyond the task-based interface found today in Windows XP. Microsoft has been working to move beyond the dated desktop metaphor still used by Mac OS X and Linux for many years; I explain some of Microsoft's early work on task-based interfaces in my old Activity Centers preview."

I know that this is not necessarily the opinion of the writers; in fact, they say that this quotation from "Pauls site" "amused" them. But still, it makes no sense. For one thing, I don't see how OS X's interface is dated, and for another, I don't see how the OS depicted in those screen shots look anything less like a "desktop" than OS X.

BTW, what size screen are these guys writing this site for? Anyone with an Apple HD Cinema Display able to read the whole page without scrolling horizontally? ;)
 
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madamimadam

macrumors 65816
Jan 3, 2002
1,281
0
Re: Dated Desktop Metaphor???

Originally posted by Switcher2001
I know that this is not necessarily the opinion of the writers; in fact, they say that this quotation from "Pauls site" "amused" them. But still, it makes no sense. For one thing, I don't see how OS X's interface is dated, and for another, I don't see how the OS depicted in those screen shots look anything less like a "desktop" than OS X.
I think they are refering to the way you keep your files and so forth on the desktop. In OS X this is an option since so many people compained about the fact that their HDs were not there in front of them. MS, on the other hand, just removed them and forced people to use the "Start" menu.

BTW, what size screen are these guys writing this site for? Anyone with an Apple HD Cinema Display able to read the whole page without scrolling horizontally? ;)
I had to take the page to total full screen but my 17" LCD JUST made it.

They must be in the 1100s or something.
 
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davidc2182

macrumors regular
Nov 8, 2001
168
0
Sin City
hey

since i don't think anyone here would care about this question i'm going to ask it anyway, anyone know how i can get my hands on longhorn? i'm using xp and i would like to use microsloths latest and greatest just to crash the bugger!
 
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madamimadam

macrumors 65816
Jan 3, 2002
1,281
0
Re: hey

Originally posted by davidc2182
since i don't think anyone here would care about this question i'm going to ask it anyway, anyone know how i can get my hands on longhorn? i'm using xp and i would like to use microsloths latest and greatest just to crash the bugger!
If you find out, I would be interested to know
 
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szark

macrumors 68030
May 14, 2002
2,887
0
Arid-Zone-A
"Task-based" usually means an attempt to perform actions based on what you want to do, not on what program you need to load.

In the photos shown, this would be indicated best in the second to last screenshot, of the "My Pictures" folder. When viewing the folder in Explorer, it gives you a menu (at the top left) allowing you to "View as a slide show," "Order prints online," etc.

Instead of loading a program such as iPhoto, you can perform these tasks "directly" from Explorer without worrying about what program you need to run. Of course, it is loading another program to run those tasks, but the user doesn't need to know that (in a task-based system).
 
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Raiden

macrumors regular
Jun 14, 2002
147
0
Darn. Any other places where I can see those pics? Any1 save them? thanks.
 
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SilvorX

macrumors 68000
May 24, 2002
1,701
0
'Toba, Canada
Originally posted by sparkleytone


in fact, the UI for XP wasnt settled on until a measly 6 months before GM, so this POS should go through many evolutions of plagiarised UI in order to stay current with MacOS.
loli know that, i can remember talking to one of the people who got to beta test xp in its EARLY builds...and this was back in '00 btw lol, and he was saying it was really fast...hmmm what happened since then :p
n i was looking on a windows website that featured windows screenshots over the builds and the "watercolor" look was more popular with ppl who theme their xp than luna..

It was the same deal with MacOS X

You will all remember OS X.0 Server.... it was nothing but a glorified MacOS9.
ya i kno lol, i was posting some early screenies a few weeks ago of osx server when it was in its old school days lol

and actually the server is down...they werent taken off the site...a windows site i go to posted bout the site being down...
 
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groovebuster

macrumors 65816
Jan 22, 2002
1,215
39
3rd rock from the sun...
Originally posted by szark
"Task-based" usually means an attempt to perform actions based on what you want to do, not on what program you need to load.

In the photos shown, this would be indicated best in the second to last screenshot, of the "My Pictures" folder. When viewing the folder in Explorer, it gives you a menu (at the top left) allowing you to "View as a slide show," "Order prints online," etc.

Instead of loading a program such as iPhoto, you can perform these tasks "directly" from Explorer without worrying about what program you need to run. Of course, it is loading another program to run those tasks, but the user doesn't need to know that (in a task-based system).
Reminds me a little bit of OpenDoc, but just approaching from the other side...

I doubt that this could be reall useful for the user. Actually you are never aware which program you are using for what and Joe Sixpack would be totally confused what he could do with the machine or not... "Why do I have to install a proggy for that? I thought Windows can do that anyway, so that at my neighbours PC!"

Someone was saying that he doesn't know why the UI of MacOS X isn't outdated...

Well, the answer is simple. Maybe they made it look cool, but the functionailty and concept is ancient meanwhile. A "2-D" window system dates back to the 70's. They added a few things over the years here and there, but in particular they are circling around themselves since a long time. I can't believe that the current concept fur the Computer UI can't be topped, considering the improved capabilities of current hardware. It's like thinking the world is flat, until they find out it's not... We are blind for new ideas because we are too used to the way computers are these days.
When we can't imagine something it doesn't mean it isn't possible...

I wish they would try a really different approach to the UI and revolutionize the way you use computers... The current experience is OK, but I am sure there are ways to make it way more ergonomic.

So far MacOS X is "just" a MacOS 9 in a new dress (regarding the UI)... No innovation at all!

groovebuster
 
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FattyMembrane

macrumors 6502a
Apr 14, 2002
966
154
bat country
OpenDoc was the greatest advancement in application/document design EVER CREATED! i dont say this lightly, but it was incredibly stupid of apple to kill it. i doubt ms could come up with anything like opendoc (apple/ibm still hold all the patents anyway) and although screenshots don't give away much about the features of a system, i doubt that windows will have anything extrordinary. as far as "task-based" systems go, have you ever seen the dancing paperclip? that's task based computing. the ms definition of task based means abstracting the user as far as possible from the workings of the system, which is not a bad idea if you just need to surf the web and type papers, but will get in the way if you need to do anything serious.

i absolutely agree with groovebuster about the sore need for a new way of thinking about computer interfaces. it seems that the tech industry has been quite slackard about the whole issue. i think that a 2-D screen is the way to go for logistical/speed purposes, but window/icon/menu/mouse has been around for far too long with no change.

p.s. look at the "change visual preferences for your pc" window in one of those screenshots. now open up your system prefs app and compare the screen real estate and how many other things you can do with sysprefs. ms seriously needs to work on streamlining the whole thing
 
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Switcher2001

macrumors member
Oct 20, 2002
64
0
Phoenix, AZ
Originally posted by groovebuster

Someone was saying that he doesn't know why the UI of MacOS X isn't outdated...

Well, the answer is simple. Maybe they made it look cool, but the functionailty and concept is ancient meanwhile. A "2-D" window system dates back to the 70's. They added a few things over the years here and there, but in particular they are circling around themselves since a long time. I can't believe that the current concept fur the Computer UI can't be topped, considering the improved capabilities of current hardware. It's like thinking the world is flat, until they find out it's not... We are blind for new ideas because we are too used to the way computers are these days.
When we can't imagine something it doesn't mean it isn't possible...

I wish they would try a really different approach to the UI and revolutionize the way you use computers... The current experience is OK, but I am sure there are ways to make it way more ergonomic.

So far MacOS X is "just" a MacOS 9 in a new dress (regarding the UI)... No innovation at all!

groovebuster
Well, I know what you mean, because I have wondered the same thing to myself, but I also wonder what the limits are to the practicality of a UI radically different from what we have.

I'm thinking back to movies I've seen in which the UI's were nothing like anything I've ever seen, and I don't know that I would enjoy using computers like that.

For instance, in Hackers (I think it was, or maybe Matrix), they showed the character searching on the Internet or on his hard drive, and there was this montage of articles from newspapers, magazines, etc., just jumping up to the front of the screen like so many different colors and shapes in a computer display test. That looks neat in the movies, but I wouldn't want that on my computer. It would make no sense and be totally impractical. Then there's Minority Report, in which you have to put on these special gloves with electronic gadgets on them and perform some kind of Tai Chi routine — standing up and waving your arms all over the place — to look through pictures and videos. Again, it looks dramatic in the movies, but I don't see myself doing that anytime soon, especially not if I'm using my laptop in bed, or on the bus, train, plane, at school. I mean, sure, we could use more exercise, and a sedentary lifestyle is a factor in disease, but there's just not enough room on a plane to do Tai Chi just to interface with your computer!

And then there's the question of the limits of practicality in industrial design. Sure, I've sometimes wondered why we can't break out of the whole rectangular theme we've got going, too. But what would be the alternative? A round display with round windows? You lose to much prime real estate when you make spaces round. Same with triangular or any other shape. The best shape for archtectural spaces and documents (be they text, picture, or video) is rectangular.

And what's so great about 3D? Life is 3D, I know, but I don't expect my computer's UI to be. One of the benefits of a computer is that it takes the three-dimensional world and compresses it into two dimensions. I've read where MS said they were going to make the UI like an office metaphor, where you could "walk through" your computer, go to a file cabinet, pull a drawer, pull out a document… please! If I wanted to go to that much trouble, I may as well be working with parchment and quill. I get plenty of 3D in the real world. I'm perfectly happy to have a 2D computer UI. I once tried a 3D UI for OS X, and I thought it was a waste of time. I do admire the effort, though, and I don't doubt that there might be a better way to interact with a computer than what we have today. All I'm saying is: don't knock it just because it's old. Sometimes what's old is still around today because it's "tried & true." :cool:
 
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Wash!!

macrumors 6502
Jan 8, 2002
389
0
here, there, who knows
Who cares!!!

I saw the picts

no matter how you look at it still winblows SH*T XP-2000-95-98 no matter how you call it is sh*t and still a bad copy of OS X or OS 9

Cheers:D
 
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FattyMembrane

macrumors 6502a
Apr 14, 2002
966
154
bat country
i've been checking out some other longhorn screenshots, but have been unable to see any key new features aside from window translucency and a new filesystem that supports metadata (these advances are simply amazing, i can't wait until we get stuff like this in osx). but there is one thing that i have found troubling for a while and since this is kind of a windows thread, i'll ask it here.

we're all familiar with the WINE project that allows windows apps to run in linux (check out http://www.lindows.com) and that xp can run many windows 95 apps, even though the systems are pretty different. why then do we have to run classic apps in emulation? i don't know enought about programming to speculate on the reasons, so feel free to shoot me down and label me an idiot. :D
 
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FattyMembrane

macrumors 6502a
Apr 14, 2002
966
154
bat country
Originally posted by FattyMembrane
i've been checking out some other longhorn screenshots, but have been unable to see any key new features aside from window translucency and a new filesystem that supports metadata (these advances are simply amazing, i can't wait until we get stuff like this in osx). but there is one thing that i have found troubling for a while and since this is kind of a windows thread, i'll ask it here.
we're all familiar with the WINE project that allows windows apps to run in linux (check out http://www.lindows.com) and that xp can run many windows 95 apps, even though the systems are pretty different. why then do we have to run classic apps in emulation? i don't know enought about programming to speculate on the reasons, so feel free to shoot me down and label me an idiot. :D

edit: check out this article i found about longhorn:
http://www.osopinion.com/perl/story/19338.html
then check out the responses on the messageboard, keeping in mind that these are WINDOWs users
http://www.osopinion.com/perl/board...ck&thread=5495&id=5683&display=1#message_5683
 
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