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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by cube, Mar 18, 2017.
If the UK wants its citizens to be able to become associate EU citizens, EU citizens should be able to become associate UK citizens.
Maybe they should build a wall.
Pfft. It's Australia, eat or be eaten by wild animals.
Why would there be Donald Trump supporters in Australia.
UK said they are leaving the EU, why is it surprising that people in the current EU aren't trying to get a job in the UK? Title of this article should have been: "duh"
They are also leaving.
Unless they have a visa that's going to be pretty certain.
They are not waiting to see what happens.
Well some person riding the dole in the UK has an opportunity to work now, better get to it.
I think chart 4 shows why #brexit is foolish in the long run. There won't be enough younger people to pay taxes to fund the NHS in the coming years if you shut out immigrants.
Brexit is the last big "**** you" parting gift from the boomers to the younger generations.
In the long term, most "boomers" (God I hate that term) will be dead so won't care. This is the catch-22 for this whole charade. Older folks vote leave as they want their services to improve with less people but in 20-30 years today's young will be the old and they won't have enough working people to support their medical needs via NHS funding. I don't blame old people as they have payed their taxes and have every right to their view of doing what's right for them, which is purely short term. They also are more active voters because they've lots to lose and lots of free time to vote.
They don't need any visa. That is one of the benefits of the free movement of people within the EU.
As for what happens after March 2019, nobody knows and the uncertainty is leading to the exodus of skilled workers from the UK.
As nature abhors a vacuum, so the shortfall in staff will have to be made up in short order. As the NHS neither has the funds nor a sufficient supply of Britons to train up in time to plug the gaps, the white EU staff will have to be replaced by brown non-EU staff from wherever the NHS can entice.
Those who voted Brexit because they wanted to 'get control of the country back' are in for a shock.
The general trajectory of real terms NHS spending has been up over a number of decades. And yet here we are with some people claiming it's in crisis. Why?
1. An ageing population.
2. A greater number of interventions than in the past and the accelerating costs of that treatment.
3. An increasing population.
Problem one will probably be solved by continuing to increase the retirement age. People will just have to work and pay taxes for longer before they become eligible for a state pension. With the big push to encourage people to save for their own retirement it's clear that government wants to shift the cost burden from state to individual.
Solving problem two is going to take some soul searching. It's just not possible for the state to continue to pay for extremely expensive medical care. Unfortunately every time NICE and local authorities make a clinical based judgement on whether to fund certain treatments based on their economical efficiency everyone screams blue murder. You get tragic reports in the media about particular patients whose quality of life could be improved by an expensive treatment. There will always be outliers. When there is a finite budget these bodies have to make judgements for the good of the whole population.
Issue three has not been helped by unchecked immigration. The money going into the system has not kept pace with the number of users. A lot of immigrants use A&E as their first port of call and and even something as simple as the language barrier has caused additional strain. The number of EU citizens predicted to immigrate to the UK was woefully under estimated. And therein lies the problem with open borders. You have no idea how many people will arrive and so you can't plan the amount of funding required for health, social services, schools, housing and other facilities. When you're in control of immigration you can allow for a lot, a little or any number in between and then make adjustments based on those figures.
More sectors affected:
Doesn't seem very healthy for a company to only have 2% of applicants from the country it is located in.
Very naive to base the UK on a similar sized US state. Comparing apple vs oranges on a single data point.
As for health care workers leaving the UK - I don't blame them. Uncertainty together with an increase of racial abuse, post brexit, if you look don't look 'British' - why would you want to work in a toxic environment.
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Isn't the EU all for this?
It would be a shame if either the UK or EU start using the foreign residents as bargaining tools. That's when things will get ugly.
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I like this "still looks pretty good, will continue to be fine" kinda comments two years before the brexit process even (kinda sorta) begins. (not to mention Scotland possibly leaving)
Good for the English to have "upgraded" from white catholic Polish nurses and plumbers to brown people from the former empire. (nothing against brown people of course, as already mentioned it's simply ironic given the tones of the brexit campaign)
Ok, then don't sit here with doom and gloom comments either?
Doom and gloom are based on actual statistically measured effects of the mere thought of brexit.
It is safe to assume that the effects of the "mere thought" of something are a milder version of what will happen when that something will actually happen. Why wouldn't they, why would the actual thing be "less scary". And in a way, the whole waiting process also acts as a self-fulfilling prophecy. As stated, a lot of people and companies aren't even waiting for the details to come in.
So the logical process behind saying "STILL looks fine" and "the worst is YET to come" is a little different, even if both sentences on the surface look out of place spoken 2 years in advance. One is a snapshot (before the actual thing even begins), the other is a projection.
Stop thinking short term. Economics isn't science, it's an art.
There does seem to be this opinion that Brexit will make all the foreigners go home and suddenly the jobs they leave behind will go to Brits. Doesn't everybody have the same chance whether we have foreigners working here or not? A lot of those ****** minimum wage jobs are done by polish people or others because they have actually applied for them and are willing to do it.
Unemployment is rife where I live in Blaenau Gwent and that is not because there are no jobs. It's because benefits are too close to a minimum wage for some Brits to justify working. There is no work ethic for a lot of people and blaming foreigners is an excuse. 15 years ago before poles were here in greater numbers, it was just a list of other excuses.
Well maybe the minimum wage should be raised so that that managers and the idle rich don't earn so much in comparison to the people who actually provide products and services...
I think it depends what industry you mean. In manufacturing you are employed for your skill set and there is a vast difference between those on the assembly line and the planners, engineers, production managers above them. If you made the pay comparable it would be hugely unfair to the people who have worked hard to get qualified. In the NHS that applies too.
What they need to do is abolish zero hour contracts universally.