Nikon D2H and new lenses!

Discussion in 'Macintosh Computers' started by Moxiemike, Jul 22, 2003.

  1. Moxiemike macrumors 68020


    Jan 1, 2002
    Pittsburgh, PA

    This to me is looking like TRUE innovation in Digital Photography! As opposed to crunching out another bunch of megapixels and a refresh of a tired AF system (canon?) it looks like the boys at Nikon have really done their homework.

    The WiFi (airport in our world) connection is totally compelling. I think that this could have HUGE potential (and if they end up on a 802.11g system with their higher megapixel cameras...lookout!).

    Imagine Being able to use rendezvous or something to see your machine at home. Log in through you D2H/D2x/D200 and be able to shoot w/o worry, using the Flash card as the buffer while it uploads...... oh man!

    Anyway. Check out this camera. It's a pro-level cam, and it lists for only $3500! The prices on these things are going down, and when Nikon releases the D2X with WiFi and an 8 or 10 MP sensor, Canon will be back to the drawing board. :)


  2. yzeater macrumors regular

    Oct 19, 2002
    The only question is the speed. 12 megabits/sec is kinda slow if you're transferring a half gig of photos, right?
  3. Mr. Anderson Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

    Nov 1, 2001
    Its got a nice bunch of options - but at 4 megapixel its not that great for the price unless you actually need the 8 continuous frames a second and wireless connection.

    If I payed that much for a camera, I'd want at least 12 Megapixel and I'd be happy without the wireless.

  4. Moxiemike thread starter macrumors 68020


    Jan 1, 2002
    Pittsburgh, PA
    What you're missing is that this was released to time with the 2004 olympics. They focused development on this machine to get it to market. This is a camera geared towards the sports photographer.

    And at $3500, this is a great cam for the sports/photojournalist.

    As far as comparisons:

    And the 1d sells like hotcakes!

    They're gonna have a D2X and a D200 which will have the big megapixel, though seriously, 6 is about equivalent to a true 35mm scan.

    Me? I'd rather have a good image than a 12mp sensor that's noisy and lacks definition like Kodaks.
  5. cgc macrumors 6502a

    May 30, 2003
    The true innovation was done by Canon with their "tired AF system" (USM) that Nikon and Sigma have both copied. Along with another "tired" Canon innovation called "image stabilization," again copied by Nikon (VR) and Sigma (OS). Canon again innovated by going with a much improved CMOS image sensor rather than the tired rehashing of a CCD.

    Nikon and Canon both make great systems, enjoy each's virtues. I will admit that, although the Wi-Fi may not be very fast, it is a good idea and will prove useful (and Canon may very well borrow that idea).

    This is a good camera, well-suited for sports photography. Of course, without a good AF system (eg. the stolen Canon technology) it would still have the gnarly Nikon AF system and be doing 1 picture every second :)
  6. Kwyjibo macrumors 68040


    Nov 5, 2002
    the wireless is very cool especially since you can stat a network on your laptop and have it basically act as a big flash card for you.
  7. AngryAngel macrumors regular

    Jul 12, 2003
    The other poster was referring to the AF sensor, not the means of AF-ing the lens. Canon has not released a dramatically improved AF sensor for digital, just moved the film sensors over (and the D10 has a slightly tweeked sensor). The EOS D30 had an ancient sensor from the original Elan, I believe.

    The D2H has the first 11-point sensor in any Nikon. It can also matrix meter with manual lenses, the first digital Nikon SLR to do this, the only other Pro Nikon to do this is the F4. Canon sacrificed a lot moving to a new mount with the EOS system, but Nikon is still keeping people with large MF lens collections happy. How many digital cameras can use those awesome Canon FD long telephotos?

    You do know that Nikon has developed their own new ultra-fast CMOS-like sensor type for the D2H, don't you? It is very unusual for a camera manufacturer to develope a new TYPE of sensor. I don't think Canon has done this.

    You do know many sports photographers still use manual pre-focussing, and back in the day they got 10+fps from specialized Canon F-1s and Nikon F2's without any AF?

    Having said all this, I agree that Nikon is a conservative company that gets it wrong quite often (they originally decided against lens-motor AF, after starting out with it in the F3AF; they are being very slow releasing AFS and VR lenses).

    For technology Canon is better, I agree. I think the best part of this news is the return of matrix with manual lenses, the cool new flash system (after a shakey start in Digital TTL flash, strange since their Film TTL flash is was good), the external colour temp meter (which also detects the strobing of fluorescent lights), and the awesome lenses (3.2x f2.8 constant zoom and the return of the 200-400mm f4 zoom, now with AFS and VR).
  8. cgc macrumors 6502a

    May 30, 2003
    As far as the Canon AF sensors go, I have an EOS 3 and the sensors are awesome. I can autofocus down to f/8. I believe almost no other camera can AF at f/8, period. I find it hard to believe Canon didn't bring these sensors to their digital line (I have no experience with Canon's digitals).

    I think it's safe to say that "Canon innovates while Nikon perfects cameras." I still think Canon has the absolute best lineup of lenses for SLRs. Can't go wrong with either though.
  9. acj macrumors 6502

    Feb 3, 2003
    35mm is about 10 MP

    I've scanned about 4000 images at 55MB (18 MP) and worked with several higher res drum scans. I also work with the 11MP Canon 1DS and the 6MP 10D. The 1DS has more resolution than the 55MB scans, and maybe a very small amount more than a good drum scan. So I would say the sharpest color film (arguably ProviaF 100) could be said to have about 10MP. Also the Canon 1Ds is silky smoth noise free, better than any film.

    That said, the market for the D2H is entirely different.
  10. acj macrumors 6502

    Feb 3, 2003
    Wi-Fi is not inovative

    Fujifilm Had it (or provided a prototype) first. And it was integrated, not a big ugly add-on.

    What I want is an ipod sized hard drive in the camera.

    The new sensor is inovative indeed.

    The big sharp screen is very nice too.

    As is the smaller battery.

    If they could only do more than 11 focus points! 45 is so very nice. Believe me it's useful.

    Worst thing: The dust problem is not solved through hardware! Curse them!

    The software has some interesting features I have wished for: vignette control (does it read lens/aperture and give the perfect adjustment!?), and rectilinear fisheye conversion.

    It looks like it will be most of what the 1D is not.
  11. cgc macrumors 6502a

    May 30, 2003
    Re: 35mm is about 10 MP

    I have heard many people say many things about how many megapixels print film compares to. The consensus is that nobody knew. I would say that current digital SLRs are equivelent to 35mm film for most amateur uses. In fact, I know for a fact that a popular photography magazine accepted a 4MP image for its cover! With that said, i do believe that digital photography is still not quite there. Here is my list of things I need before I convert to digital:

    1. No shutter lag (think Nikon may have got this)
    2. In-camera, solid-state storage that is so fast I can take 4 pictures-per-second until the storage medium fills up (and that better be in the GB range).
    3. Some way of simulating different types of films at picture taking time...not in Photoshop(e.g. vibrant colors, accentuate greens, grainy, you get the idea)
    4. Long battery life
    5. Super bright LCD

    All of this for under $1500. This list keeps geting shorter. Soon...very soon...
  12. MisterMe macrumors G4


    Jul 17, 2002
    Re: Re: 35mm is about 10 MP

    The number I hear is 8 Mpixels for 35 mm film. However, most professional D-SLR pictures are somewhere in the neighborhood of 4 Mpixels, and they look great. For the picture book A Day in the Life of Africa, some of the photos were shot using 4 Mpixel Olympus point-and-shoot cameras. Their quality is indistinguishable from the quality of those shot using higher resolution Olympus cameras like the E-20. For the pros, just about any dificiency in the camera is corrected in Photoshop.
  13. acj macrumors 6502

    Feb 3, 2003
    cgc: Sure, 4 MP images get published all the time. I still say ProviaF is about 10MP. Just from my experience, though, which is limited but fairly substantial nontheless. See

    #1: I think you can knock shutter lag off your list

    #2 With the D2H you can get more pictures than a roll of film, however you could probably change rolls faster than the buffer flush.

    #3 You can do this, however I would never give up processing in Adobe's Camera Raw. It blows the flexibility of film away, so why would I want to simulate film?

    #4 Right on, this is pathetic.

    #5 The Canon 10D is pretty darn good, even in sunlight. Better than the 1DS.
  14. acj macrumors 6502

    Feb 3, 2003
    Re: Re: Re: 35mm is about 10 MP

    Some PHD (Push Here, Dummy) cameras are darn sharp! The SLR is required for many situations for other reasons than publishing quality.

    As for photoshop, I can't quite agree with you from a pros perspective. It's hard to use it to make a 2-page spread look not-digital if it's a 4MP camera. Also can't sharpen a really bad image, can't change depth of field, etc.
  15. cgc macrumors 6502a

    May 30, 2003
    People say that they can do so much in Photoshop but who really has the time to alter every image? Having different types of films and knowing how to use them can save tons of time over Photoshopping images. If I do need to fix an image, I can scan it in and Photoshop it, but it is not something I would enjoy doing on a regular basis.
  16. MattG macrumors 68040


    May 27, 2003
    Asheville, NC
    $3500 for a 4mp camera is insane, 8fps or no 8fps. For $3500 they should have at least thrown a better chip in there.

    Nikon, figures.
  17. acj macrumors 6502

    Feb 3, 2003
    It beats the competition in features and price. Some need 8 FPS, along with the weather sealing, large buffer, vast assortment of lenses, and killer autofocus. Some of the potential customers would pay it off with 2 assignments.
  18. acj macrumors 6502

    Feb 3, 2003
    In the stock photography world

    Well, I do. We strive to make every image as close to perfect as possible, and it pays off.

    Compare the quality of our stuff at with our competitor, Many of their images are dark because they don't touch them up. They bulk scan with film. Sometimes you can't even tell what the picture is of.
  19. LethalWolfe macrumors G3


    Jan 11, 2002
    Los Angeles
    Judgeing a camera soley by it's pixel count is like judgeing a computer soley on it's clock speed.

  20. Bear macrumors G3

    Jul 23, 2002
    Sol III - Terra
    Define better?

    It is a better chip in a lot of ways. It just doesn't have the resolution you are looking for. Wait for the D2X then.

    The D2H was meant for photo journalists and sports photography. The D2X (when announced) should be what you are looking for. And at a price significantly lower than the Canon 1Ds.
  21. cgc macrumors 6502a

    May 30, 2003
    Re: In the stock photography world

    I still believe that a good photographer should not have to touch up many pictures. Granted, I have to touch up a few of mine because I am merely an amateur, but for professionals (and this expensive camera is geared towards pros) time is money and fixing lots of pictures costs too much.

    I'll check your site out when I get home.
  22. acj macrumors 6502

    Feb 3, 2003
    Re: Re: In the stock photography world

    I have learned that quite the opposite is true. The extra time pays off. When we sell our own photo instead of our comptetitor and stock agency, we get 100%, not 40% or 0% if they sell someone elses photo.

    Consider a search for "bears" on alaskastock vs. our site. Side by side, our pictures pop out more even though they have a greater selection.

    Their pictures will require work by someone before they our published, ours may not.

    Also consider that National Geographic has never published a single photo without doing some work. They never change the content, but they do plenty of dodging, burning, contrast conrol, sharpening, lightening, darkening, etc.

    With some work, digital images have the latitude to do something that chromes never could always do: Show the scene as it looked.

    Considering the time it takes to take the photo, edit down to the best few, tranfer to the computer, post it to the site, caption it, a little photoshop work is not that big of a deal.

    Lastly, yes, perfect photos should not need touching up, but consider that Point and shoot digital cameras use a compressed (and often regected by publishers) sRGB color space for snapier colors, they make adjustments after the photo is taken, and they sharpen the images. This often produces a great final product, but when the automatic settings mess up, they cannot be undone like the pro cameras with a real color space and 12 bits of raw data per color.
  23. Lanbrown macrumors 6502a

    Mar 20, 2003
    What about that Nikon abandoned Firewire on this camera?
  24. Moxiemike thread starter macrumors 68020


    Jan 1, 2002
    Pittsburgh, PA
    USb 2.0/..... hate to say, if Macs had USB 2.0 (and i know they do now....) then there's no reason for firewire on a 4mp cam. files will be quick enough over USB. :)
  25. AngryAngel macrumors regular

    Jul 12, 2003
    I'm not sure about now, but back when the D1 came out, a whole load of UK photo jouranlists used the PowerBook G3 (bronze keyboard) for reviewing and sending back to base.

    There isn't an Apple Laptop with USB2.

    I suppose the wireless thingy gets around this, but that thing is pretty bulky.

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