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Nikon D90 - Indoor exposure issues.

S

SOLLERBOY

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Aug 8, 2008
715
68
UK
I recently upgraded to a D90 from a D40, I have the Nikon 50mm 1.4 afs and the kit 18-55 dx .

I have been finding the transition a little rough as I'm having major issues with focusing on the D90. If it's sunny outside it will focus nice and sharply with the 18-55 but the 50mm seems to be soft all the time when i took over two thousand shots using it and the d40 in New York earlier in the year. I am in the middle of an assignment for college and am trying to create some images indoors. The room is well lit, I'm using ISO 320 and have tries add different shutter speeds handheld but still can't get sharp, well focused images.

Does anyone have any suggestions??
Thanks.

EXAMPLE:
dsc0682.th.jpg
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What it is your shutter speed? I would turn ISO up to at least 800, the room does not look that well lit, this will more than double your shutter speed (good for hand held). To get the images sharper, close the aperture down to f8 or so, that should make the kit lens reasonably sharp (Nikon guys speak up if I am wrong here), this will increase your shutter speed (not good for hand held).

The most important step is probably shoot from a tripod (or if you don't have one, rest the camera on something like a table and use the self timer to take the picture).

Good luck.
 
jampat said:
What it is your shutter speed? I would turn ISO up to at least 800, the room does not look that well lit, this will more than double your shutter speed (good for hand held). To get the images sharper, close the aperture down to f8 or so, that should make the kit lens reasonably sharp (Nikon guys speak up if I am wrong here), this will increase your shutter speed (not good for hand held).

The most important step is probably shoot from a tripod (or if you don't have one, rest the camera on something like a table and use the self timer to take the picture).

Good luck.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the help. I tried with my tri pod but I don't have enough space, I have my back to the wall as it is with that shot, I will definitely try what you said.

My problem is I am so used to using the D40 and the settings get lost in translation when using something so good as the D90.
 
This shot was taken with 50mm at an aperture of 1.4 correct? Changing the shutter speed is not going to help you get sharp pictures as much as adjusting the aperture for this shot. You need to stop down the aperture. There is not enough light in this room to stop down the aperture enough and have a fast enough shutter speed to hand hold and get a sharp image. The only options I see are to bring more light into the room or if you had a flash that would let you angle it up to give a more natural look. However, your built in flash won't allow you to do this. If you have a flash you can attach to the hot shoe that would help. Do you have a small table or stand that would fit that you could put the camera on? I hope this helps.
 
SOLLERBOY said:
My problem is I am so used to using the D40 and the settings get lost in translation when using something so good as the D90.
Click to expand...

The settings should be the same for correct exposure with either camera body unless you have a hardware problem- that is if the correct exposure value is say 1/125th of a second at f/2.8 at ISO 200, that will be the correct exposure value with either the D40 or the D90 or a $7000 D3x- exposure is exposure and the correct exposure isn't tied to a particular body[1]. You're underexposing, which is likely a metering problem. What metering mode are you using? What are you metering for? Have you tried adjusting the exposure bias? What is your expected result? Without knowing any of that, you're using the camera as a large point and shoot, which won't get you the results you should be getting. Start with center-weighted or spot metering on a grey or white card, and record the expected exposure. Set the camera on manual, dial in the expected exposure settings and adjust from there- you're inside you're not shooting action in changing lighting- it shouldn't be a big deal.

The easiest thing to do is to dial in some exposure compensation, but that's more appropriate when you're dealing with changing lighting conditions than when you have the time to actually set the exposure where it needs to be.

[1] Slight per-body and per-lens adjustments may be necessary, but if they're more than about 1/3rd of a stop, you have a hardware problem.
 
SOLLERBOY said:
My problem is I am so used to using the D40 and the settings get lost in translation when using something so good as the D90.
Click to expand...
I know how it is, I moved from a canon rebel xt to a D90.

From the metadata on that image it was taken at 1/20 shutter speed, I think that is a little low for a hand held shot. Remember the D90 is way better at higher ISO's than the D40, crank it up! You can get up to 1600 before you even start to notice noise, and with a higher ISO you can shoot with a higher shutter speed.
 
Keep in mind the depth of field at f/1.4 on the 50mm is going to be extremely small. You can have a nose in focus and the rest of the face out of focus. I think that's your problem.
 
exif says 18mm, ISO 320, 1/20, f/3.5. the shot is at least 2 stops underexposed (i'm actually thinking 3 or more). assuming +2 stops is a proper exposure, that means ISO 1600, 1/30, f/3.5. i suggest you get a flash or a tripod.

the room might look well-lit to you, but remember the camera is only seeing that light for a fraction of a second, not continuously.
 
Krafty said:
I'm going though the same thing the OP is in a sense. I can never figure out how to get a good crisp photo. I'm using a D80 + 18-55MM. Here are my shots:
http://imgkk.com/i/YuCj0NgO.jpg
ISO - 1600

http://imgkk.com/i/6qXnjvGt.jpg
ISO - 1600

http://imgkk.com/i/49oqe1A.jpg
ISO - 100

http://imgkk.com/i/3CWNPQBk.jpg
ISO - 800

http://imgkk.com/i/ETyHi9kg.jpg
ISO - 1600

http://imgkk.com/i/xm2t6FyN.jpg
ISO - 320

Either its not crisp or theres an unbearable amount of noise.
Click to expand...

Of the pictures I checked, all of them where F/9, I don't really see the need for such a small aperture for those photos, as there was not much happening in the background, so I would just turn down the F stop as much as you can, that way you can get a higher shutter speed and lower the iso a bit.

Also those pictures are all under exposed.
 
You really need to up your aperture to f10 or higher to get everything in focus and sharp. Otherwise, with an aperture as wide as 1.4, the depth of field is extremely small. Bump up your ISO to 1600 (especially shooting indoors with poor lighting), and bump your aperture to 10, and adjust your shutter accordingly. You'll probably need to use a tripod, unless you've got steady hands like me. :D Also, learn to use your histogram as well, as it helps with determining if the image is exposed properly, with the right amount of light.
 
SUPERSTEVE9219 said:
Of the pictures I checked, all of them where F/9, I don't really see the need for such a small aperture for those photos, as there was not much happening in the background, so I would just turn down the F stop as much as you can, that way you can get a higher shutter speed and lower the iso a bit.

Also those pictures are all under exposed.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I noticed that the exposure was set to -1. Don't know why. After fixing, here's a better shot, I'll have to work on the f/ as well.
 

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Krafty said:
Yeah, I noticed that the exposure was set to -1. Don't know why. After fixing, here's a better shot, I'll have to work on the f/ as well.
Click to expand...

yea that picture is much better! sharper, properly exposed, and a lot less noise.
 
Thanks for the help guys, I'm trying to get a dark and depressed look so that's why the lighting is off a bit.
 
another thought: make sure whatever you're focusing on has some contrast. if you're using an off-center point, it should of lots of contrast.
 
I've just done another shoot at the same location and used a tri pod, the camera is having issues focusing.

the exif is telling me I was shooting at f22 at 0.4 of a second which I chose to get the effect I wanted. I've tried in different light conditions over a period odf months but I can;t get it to focus like my D40 did. Does anyone have any advice??
 
SOLLERBOY said:
I've just done another shoot at the same location and used a tri pod, the camera is having issues focusing.

the exif is telling me I was shooting at f22 at 0.4 of a second which I chose to get the effect I wanted. I've tried in different light conditions over a period odf months but I can;t get it to focus like my D40 did. Does anyone have any advice??
Click to expand...

Some camera bodies just are not built correctly and need repair. Yours could be defective. The auto focus sensor has to be exactly the same distance from the lens as the CCD image sensor. In older film cameras they adjusted this at the factory with thin brass shims and would sometimes get it wrong. If it's a new camera then this is a warranty issue.

When the optical path lengths do not match exactly you have a built-in back or forward focus error that is systematic. What happens is the defect is not detected with an f/5.6 lens because of the large DOF. But with an f/1.4 you see it.

One other thing.. You not looked at your images. But maybe you are expecting to much. Some people will make huge blow ups (100% zoom level) and are surprized when the image is not sharp. it shouldn't be. The D90 can make images up to about 14 inches wide. No larger

DSLRs all have a "anti alias" filter that blurs the image so as to remove detail finer then one half cycle per pixel.
 
Krafty said:
I'm going though the same thing the OP is in a sense. I can never figure out how to get a good crisp photo. I'm using a D80 + 18-55MM. Here are my shots:
Click to expand...

It is a trade off of three factors. You are the artist get to balance these competling factors

1) Lenses have resolving power proportional to their diameter. The larger the better. This means you like to shoot at a wide f-stop

2) Depth of field depends on f-stop so you may have to close down to get all of the subject in focus

3) Many lenses are not perfect and perform best a stop or two from their widest setting

You have to set realistic expectations. These Nikon/Canon crop frame SLRs were designed for making images that will be printed no more then 10 to 14 inches across. You can expect to see resolution of about 50 lines per millimeter at the sensor at best.

If you are not happy with the image quality the #1 thing to get is lighting. Any light will do. Cheap used Viviter 285 strobes, Home Depot work lights, White foam core board to reflect sunlight, anything. The goal is to shoot at the lowest ISO

Use good technique. You can have camera shake even on a tripod. If you can alway us the self timmer or remote control to trip the shutter. Weight the tripod by hanging a water jug (or rocks) between the legs. Remove un needed filters from the lens, Use a lens shade but CHECK if light is striking the lens and shade with your hand or a hat or book. Double check the focus, is it on the "correct" part of the subject -- for example did you focus on the eyes or the nose? hopefully the eye.

Don't expect perfection. This is a DX size camera. Buy a Film body for $100 if you need better image quality. It's a huge jump up for a small price.
 
ChrisA said:
These Nikon/Canon crop frame SLRs were designed for making images that will be printed no more then 10 to 14 inches across.
Click to expand...

I've got stunning 20x30 images from APS-C cameras that are highly detailed from 2" away. If you look at the Goose and Goslings pictures in my Fine Art Nature online gallery, the small feathers on the goslings heads resolve very well on a 20x30 (cropped) print. When you start talking about the correct viewing distances, you can go *well* past 10-14". Also, publishers have been doing full bleed double-page spreads from cropped sensor bodies for years. About the only cropped sensor body that was limited that Nikon's put out was the D2h, which at 4MP produced great 8x10's but wasn't really there for a full-bleed double spread.

See also:

http://www.normankoren.com/Tutorials/MTF7A.html

Same lens (Nikkor 24-120mm @ 50 mm), same f-stop (f/11), same tripod, same brand of camera (Nikon), N70 with Fuji Reala at ISO 100 vs. D100 at ISO 200 (sorry, it goes no lower). D100 shot at 1:39 ratio, N70 shot at 1:26 ratio in order to make the overall image scale the same due to 1.5:1 lens multiplier. Thus, everything is the same except the focusing distance, which should have little effect on resolution. (The lens is not the limiting factor here.)

1. Reala, ISO 100, scanned on a Canon FS4000 at 4,000 dpi, no extra sharpening. (The Canon has built-in sharpening that can't be turned off).

2. D100, ISO 200, normal sharpening. The scale actually represents approximately 7.5 to 75 lines per mm (that 1.5x multiplier).

3. Reala, ISO 100, same scan as 1, with extra sharpening .

Film images 1 and 3 have more grain than 2, with more grain visible in 3 due to sharpening. The mottling of the cyan ink in digital image 2 resembles the target itself (the black, yellow and magenta have smoother ink coatings). The D100 image appears sharper than even the extra sharpened Reala/Canon scan. These are at 1:1 for the D100 scale (I had to adjust scales because the D100 imager is only 70% the dimensions of 35mm) and represent a section of an enlargement that would be 28" x 42". I tried (not totally successfully) to make the tones the same.

The D100 resolution chart shows some moiré interactions down in the 30-35 lp/mm range (which is really not that value at the actual D100 scale -- it's really more like 45-50 lp/mm). Note this Moiré effect is rarely of concern because most real photos don't contain such precise, repetitive, high-contrast pitch elements. (It could be a problem with fabrics in fashion photography-- NK).
Click to expand...
(emphasis mine)

and

My (NLK) observations: The D100 has higher contrast up to nearly 30 on the scale (roughly 45 lp/mm) and much less noise (grain). Response above 30 is mostly artifacts. Reala scanned at 4000 dpi has resolvable detail to over 35, but contrast is very low above about 28 and the image is noticeably grainy. Overall image quality looks better with the D100.
Click to expand...

At first I thought these cameras were a stopgap measure on the way to full-frame cameras. I was wrong. They're here to stay. Compared to the full-frame cameras, they are much less expensive and slightly smaller and lighter. Several manufacturers (Canon, Nikon, Sigma, Tamron, Tokina) now make lenses for this format. These lenses are sharper, smaller, and lighter then their counterparts that cover the full 35mm frame. The image quality in the best of these cameras equals 35mm: I can make better 13x19 inch enlargements with my Canon EOS-20D than I've ever seen from 35mm.
Click to expand...
(emphasis mine)

and:

http://www.wlcastleman.com/equip/reviews/film_ccd/index.htm

Conclusions

* Current Canon EOS-1D and 20D digital slr cameras outperform film in image quality and sharpness
* The EOS-1Ds Mark II and the 20D have the smallest pixel size of the cameras tested and have the highest resolution. The EOS-1Ds Mark II achieved the highest image quality when resolution and 50% MTF and image appearance were compared.
* Film continues to have higher resolving capacity with high quality lenses than CMOS sensor-based digital cameras. However, after scanning for viewing and printing, lower 50% MTF in film is associated with lower overall image sharpness.
Click to expand...
 
compuwar said:
The settings should be the same for correct exposure with either camera body unless you have a hardware problem- that is if the correct exposure value is say 1/125th of a second at f/2.8 at ISO 200, that will be the correct exposure value with either the D40 or the D90 or a $7000 D3x- exposure is exposure and the correct exposure isn't tied to a particular body[1]. You're underexposing, which is likely a metering problem. What metering mode are you using? What are you metering for? Have you tried adjusting the exposure bias? What is your expected result? Without knowing any of that, you're using the camera as a large point and shoot, which won't get you the results you should be getting. Start with center-weighted or spot metering on a grey or white card, and record the expected exposure. Set the camera on manual, dial in the expected exposure settings and adjust from there- you're inside you're not shooting action in changing lighting- it shouldn't be a big deal.

The easiest thing to do is to dial in some exposure compensation, but that's more appropriate when you're dealing with changing lighting conditions than when you have the time to actually set the exposure where it needs to be.

[1] Slight per-body and per-lens adjustments may be necessary, but if they're more than about 1/3rd of a stop, you have a hardware problem.
Click to expand...

AGREE!!! 100% ... "The best solution".

Easy to experiment on a fixed lighting condition... camera is like a human head ... you have the head (Camera Body), your Nerves that controls eye blinks (Shutter speed), your Eye of course (Aperture) and your reasoning on colors & brightness and sharpness or maybe your glasses (reading glasses) (ISO), and lastly your Candle light when it's totally dark (Flash)...

You should know when to use them when you are in different lighting conditions.
CAMERA - Avoid shaking your Head to achieve sharp focus on an object.
SHUTTER SPEED - You can capture the details if you don't blink too much. but sometimes you are over exposing it in your brain if you don't blink at all.
APERTURE - The darker the place, the wider your eye pupil can open. when there's too much light your pupil should have smaller opening.
ISO - you need to wear your reading glasses if you don't have a 20/20 vision.... this will help you achieve sharpness though grainy. and lastly...
still dark?
bring a candle light (Flash)

Experiment more....
 
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