iMac Pro No more iMac Pro?

high heaven

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Dec 7, 2017
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It's been more than 2 years since iMac Pro released and since then, I didn't see any updates for iMac Pro. Any idea when will they going to update their iMac Pro?
 

Elwe

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Dec 30, 2006
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When Apple announced it, Phil did say it was something they thought a certain type of customer really needed because Apple was going to take a while to re-introduce a Mac Pro. I like the machine
. . but given a) the Mac Pro is here; b) there is now an eight core iMac when at the time of introduce was just half that; and c) Intel has not really move the needle—why introduce a revision? Why not leave it as is for people who need something like this, and then when you are ready to introduce a new format iMac, just end-of-life it then. Hopefully that iMac will have a better cooling solution, come only with SSD, have at least a 1080p webcam, a T2 or T3 Chip, and at least four TB3 ports. And not have Xeon procs nor ECC memory.
 

tpivette89

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Jan 1, 2018
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Intel has released new W-2200 series Xeon chips (the sucessors to the W-2100 Xeons in the iMac Pro), so its possible we could see a refresh soon. How soon? Who knows. Maybe WWDC.
 

Glockworkorange

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Feb 10, 2015
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My bet is they're done making that machine.

Does anyone have confidence there will be another one?

I mean, we're going on three years here and the new Mac Pro has been well received....

Thoughts?
 

dapa0s

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Jan 2, 2019
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So where's the poll?

I actually believe we will get one since it can still fit somewhere between the regular iMac and the Mac Pro.

But I would prefer for Apple to discontinue it.

Think about it, we should just get a new iMac with the MUCH improved cooling system, T2 (T3 maybe?), true tone, better speakers and camera, more thunderbolt ports (the mac mini has four), etc. And all for half the price of the iMac Pro...

And on top of that, why not offer us a space gray and silver options on the iMac, so people don't miss out. They do offer it de facto on all Macbooks, after all.
 

Glockworkorange

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So where's the poll?

I actually believe we will get one since it can still fit somewhere between the regular iMac and the Mac Pro.

But I would prefer for Apple to discontinue it.

Think about it, we should just get a new iMac with the MUCH improved cooling system, T2 (T3 maybe?), true tone, better speakers and camera, more thunderbolt ports (the mac mini has four), etc. And all for half the price of the iMac Pro...

And on top of that, why not offer us a space gray and silver options on the iMac, so people don't miss out. They do offer it de facto on all Macbooks, after all.
I couldn't figure out how to make it :-(
- - Post merged: - -

So where's the poll?

I actually believe we will get one since it can still fit somewhere between the regular iMac and the Mac Pro.

But I would prefer for Apple to discontinue it.

Think about it, we should just get a new iMac with the MUCH improved cooling system, T2 (T3 maybe?), true tone, better speakers and camera, more thunderbolt ports (the mac mini has four), etc. And all for half the price of the iMac Pro...

And on top of that, why not offer us a space gray and silver options on the iMac, so people don't miss out. They do offer it de facto on all Macbooks, after all.
I agree with everything you said. High end iMacs are plenty powerful these days. If you need something more powerful than a $4K iMac, then get a Mac Pro.
 

CWallace

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Aug 17, 2007
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It's been more than 2 years since iMac Pro released and since then, I didn't see any updates for iMac Pro. Any idea when will they going to update their iMac Pro?
My money is on WWDC 2020.

It's been two years since an upgrade because it has taken two years for Intel and AMD to release an upgrade part. As noted, Intel finally has an upgrade CPU (W-2200 Xeon) available and AMD finally has an upgrade GPU architecture (Navi) available.

I follow a fair number of Mac technical podcasts and the iMac Pro is much-loved by the hosts and guests for audio recording / editing and software development. So I believe the model has a sustainable market that would warrant keeping the model around and refreshing it.
 
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yurc

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Aug 12, 2016
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Don’t forget those newer Cascade Lake Xeon (W-2000 series) are cheaper because of Intel price cut. It should driven iMac Pro price down if Apple pass them along to consumer.

But I doubt.
 

ThisBougieLife

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Jan 21, 2016
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It does sometimes seems to me that the iMac Pro was to tide people over until the Mac Pro was updated.

At this point, having it and the Mac Pro doesn't make a lot of sense.

But then again, we've heard nothing about the regular iMac either. Are all iMacs fated for discontinuation?
 

iPadified

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Apr 25, 2017
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Well, iMac Pro sits right in the middle between iMac and Mac Pro performance wise and price wise so it is not obvious that it will discontinued. If iMac inherits the iMac Pro cooling system allowing for more power hungry i9 processors, then it is possible that it will be discontinued.
 

Glockworkorange

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My money is on WWDC 2020.

It's been two years since an upgrade because it has taken two years for Intel and AMD to release an upgrade part. As noted, Intel finally has an upgrade CPU (W-2200 Xeon) available and AMD finally has an upgrade GPU architecture (Navi) available.

I follow a fair number of Mac technical podcasts and the iMac Pro is much-loved by the hosts and guests for audio recording / editing and software development. So I believe the model has a sustainable market that would warrant keeping the model around and refreshing it.
Would you agree if we don't receive an update this year, it's dead?
 

_Skyfire_

macrumors member
Aug 16, 2017
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The world has advanced drastically in the last couple of decades, vastly improving our quality of life along the way. IMO the best part about progress is the democratization of technology. The newest and greatest product will be prohibitively expensive at first, but after a few years accessible to the masses.

This phenomena is why I expect the iMP to disappear during 2020 and the transition of all the improvements into a redesigned, affordable iMac. I mean this transition is clearly inevitable at some point, the only question is timing. I'd gather since the iMP will soon be a 3 years old piece of technology, now is the time for this particular "democratization".
 
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MistrSynistr

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iMac Pro felt like a stop gap for the Mac Pro. They didn't even redesign the chassis for it to make it stand out from the iMac. They just slapped Space Gray on it.
 
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sublunar

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Jun 23, 2007
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A minimalist update for the iMac Pro would see its internals comfortably dealing with the probably hotter running Comet Lake S CPUs in an October update that allows the iMac Pro to be retired because a 2020 Core based iMac could extend into low end iMac Pro territory while Mac Pro does the heavy lifting where the iMac Pro would have gone.

The iMac Pro is built to cool Xeons that are 140W TDP rated, which would appear to be able to cope with the expected 125W TDP from the i9-10900K.

Remember that adopting the iMac Pro cooling scheme probably means going all-SSD and losing the RAM access door - but also introducing the T2 co-processor to the last Mac range without it. This probably spells the end of the base 27" iMac price SKU and price points.

Something has to come in underneath that and I am advocating a 24" 4k iMac which would also be all SSD but also an all-new cooler running design which could start with 8Gb and 256Gb SSD.

The major downside for power users will be the relative lack of Thunderbolt 3 ports - only 2 on a regular iMac - because of the Core platform.

Intel has released new W-2200 series Xeon chips (the sucessors to the W-2100 Xeons in the iMac Pro), so its possible we could see a refresh soon. How soon? Who knows. Maybe WWDC.
Ironically, the W-2200 series appear to have a higher TDP than the W-2100 series - 165w for 10, 12, 14, and 18 core models. This may stand against a simple slot-in replacement unless Apple arrange for cheaper (under clocked) CPUs that may not have fully passed the Intel QC.
 

CWallace

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At this point, having it and the Mac Pro doesn't make a lot of sense.
I disagree as I feel the two products serve different levels of the "pro market" and therefore there is room enough for both (if I am honest, I feel the iMac Pro addresses the bulk of this market, with the Mac Pro there for the higher end workflows).


But then again, we've heard nothing about the regular iMac either. Are all iMacs fated for discontinuation?
It is Apple's most popular desktop by a large margin and desktops are still around 20% of Mac sales as per Apple's last public statements.


Would you agree if we don't receive an update this year, it's dead?
No, and I do not say that to be contrary. This is Apple, after all, and we have seen multi-year cycles between updates to the Mac Mini and MacBook Air.

That being said, I do feel the longer the model goes without an update when there are parts that should be relatively easy to swap into it, the more I will feel that the product is destined to End of Life.


iMac Pro felt like a stop gap for the Mac Pro. They didn't even redesign the chassis for it to make it stand out from the iMac. They just slapped Space Gray on it.
I still believe it was meant to replace the Mac Pro. I know it was not announced until just after the "Mac Pro Roundtable" meeting, but Apple would have been working on it well before that meeting. Looking at what the Mac Pro eventually became, I believe that a fair bit of the "pro market" Apple was talking to did like the iMac Pro, but there were those...outliers...who needed something much more expandable and powerful and were willing to pay significantly more for it.
 
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Glockworkorange

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I disagree as I feel the two products serve different levels of the "pro market" and therefore there is room enough for both (if I am honest, I feel the iMac Pro addresses the bulk of this market, with the Mac Pro there for the higher end workflows).




It is Apple's most popular desktop by a large margin and desktops are still around 20% of Mac sales as per Apple's last public statements.




No, and I do not say that to be contrary. This is Apple, after all, and we have seen multi-year cycles between updates to the Mac Mini and MacBook Air.

That being said, I do feel the longer the model goes without an update when there are parts that should be relatively easy to swap into it, the more I will feel that the product is destined to End of Life.




I still believe it was meant to replace the Mac Pro. I know it was not announced until just after the "Mac Pro Roundtable" meeting, but Apple would have been working on it well before that meeting. Looking at what the Mac Pro eventually became, I believe that a fair bit of the "pro market" Apple was talking to did like the iMac Pro, but there were those...outliers...who needed something much more expandable and powerful and were willing to pay significantly more for it.
"I still believe it was meant to replace the Mac Pro."

For sure. They've all but admitted it. I'm glad they've made both the iMac Pro and the Mac Pro---I'd buy neither, of course---I plain old iMac is fine for me.

The more high end kit they make, the more the advancements will sprinkle throughout the product line.
 

serpico007

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Sep 18, 2017
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Because the Mac Pro starts at a high price, I have a feeling Apple will keep this around longer as an "entry" model. But I really hope for a case redesign for the iMac. Maybe a similar concept to the G4 model where the base was bigger than a Mac Mini so it was possible to do small upgrades. We don't need to deal with big spinning drives now and GPU cards would be the biggest upgrade anyone could do. Would be cool.
 

fastlanephil

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Nov 17, 2007
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Yeah, the scuttlebutt probably leaking out of Apple posted on the MR Mac Pro forum was that an iMac “Pro?!!”was going to be the next Mac Pro. Then there was talk that many of Apple’s pro customers were going to jump ship so Apple had to scurry and come up with a “modular” Mac Pro with some type of expandability.

Maybe the next generation iMac is going to be a radical departure from the current line up. Could that image that Apple submitted for a patent actually be an Apple lab prototype of the iMac Air which will be powered by an Apple CPU? Maybe starting at $999. Then the midrange and TOTL iMac up to maybe an Intel 10-core with a needed cooling upgrade. This could also include a scaled back iMac Pro with maybe just a 12 core Xeon processor, ECC memory and better GPU options. It will be marketed as part of the iMac family and not as a compromised alternative to the Mac Pro. Of course, all the iMacs will have the T2 or newer controller chip and the necessary solid state storage.
 

CWallace

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If a 2018 mini can have 4 TB3 ports, why can't a new iMac?
It can. I presume it does not because Apple's research shows most iMac users still have USB-A devices they connect to it so they have not bothered to add more.

I do hope the next iMac case redesign moves to four TB3/USB-C ports like the iMac Pro as I would prefer to just move on to USB-C.
 

Glockworkorange

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It can. I presume it does not because Apple's research shows most iMac users still have USB-A devices they connect to it so they have not bothered to add more.

I do hope the next iMac case redesign moves to four TB3/USB-C ports like the iMac Pro as I would prefer to just move on to USB-C.
What is the cost of adding two additional TB ports to an iMac? I always assumed it was a cost issue. I would much rather my iMac have four like my MacBook Pro---I have no need for USB A anymore, although I know many do. It's just not worth it to me to buy an iMac Pro for two extra TB3 ports!
 

sublunar

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Jun 23, 2007
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I don't follow this at all. Please explain.

If a 2018 mini can have 4 TB3 ports, why can't a new iMac?
The 2018 mini and 2019 iMac use the same series of Intel CPUs which have 16 PCIe lanes free coming off the CPU (there's also an additional number of PCIe lanes free from the motherboard but they are in addition to the CPU ones and are generally used for the USB ports, wifi, bluetooth, onboard SSD etc).

To simplify things greatly, let's say that the iMac uses 8 of these lanes for connecting to the onboard GPU. This leaves 8 lanes for Thunderbolt which is split between 2 ports each taking up 4 PCIe lanes.

The 2018 Mac mini doesn't have to deal with a GPU and therefore has all 16 PCIe lanes available for Thunderbolt 3 - therefore it has 4 Thunderbolt 3 ports available to use.

This in theory makes the Mac mini 2018 a decent choice for people who are happy with Intel on board integrated video because they can use the 2 additional Thunderbolt ports for something else.

If you plug in an eGPU using one of the Thunderbolt 3 ports it'll only be using 4x PCIe lanes vs the 8x lanes that are used in an iMac but the GPU choices in the iMac are usually more anaemic than can be purchased and placed into an eGPU.

And in any case, the throughput difference between using a PC whose graphics card usually has a PCIe 3.0 16x slot, vs an iMac which is connecting the dGPU onboard using 8 lanes, and a Mac mini 2018 connecting eGPU via Thunderbolt 3 (4 lanes) probably spans only 10% in raw sustained performance.

What is the cost of adding two additional TB ports to an iMac? I always assumed it was a cost issue. I would much rather my iMac have four like my MacBook Pro---I have no need for USB A anymore, although I know many do. It's just not worth it to me to buy an iMac Pro for two extra TB3 ports!
Apple solve the shortage of Thunderbolt 3 ports by using an Intel Xeon CPU which has 48 lanes, plenty to drive a GPU (16 lanes), 2x4 lanes for RAID SSDs, and 4 full power Thunderbolt 3 ports (16 lanes) on the iMac and iMac Pro.

A $3-5k 2020 iMac (using just 16 lanes) has Titan Ridge which allows 6k XDR monitors at full resolution but not enough lanes overall.

It clearly would be better off starting off life as a 2020 refresh Xeon powered iMac Pro with full access to 4 Titan Ridge controlled Thunderbolt ports capable of driving a 32" 6k Apple Pro Display XDR at full resolution. It would be a mistake to keep the 2017 iMac Pro on sale when a 2019 iMac could actually drive that XDR display at full resolution instead!

I think the Titan Ridge controller (introduced in the Macbook Pro 15" 2018 and 16" 2019, and all iMac 2019 models, but not on the iMac Pro 2017 curiously) is something like $10-15 (and they use a SKU that allows 2 ports off a single TB3 controller) but its the lack of available PCIe lanes after connecting up a GPU that causes Apple the problem on the non-Pro iMac. Each Titan Ridge controller that Apple use splits 4 lanes across 2 ports. Obviously there's another good reason for the iMac Pro to get an update to include Titan Ridge on its Thunderbolt ports!
 
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Glockworkorange

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The 2018 mini and 2019 iMac use the same series of Intel CPUs which have 16 PCIe lanes free coming off the CPU (there's also an additional number of PCIe lanes free from the motherboard but they are in addition to the CPU ones and are generally used for the USB ports, wifi, bluetooth, onboard SSD etc).

To simplify things greatly, let's say that the iMac uses 8 of these lanes for connecting to the onboard GPU. This leaves 8 lanes for Thunderbolt which is split between 2 ports each taking up 4 PCIe lanes.

The 2018 Mac mini doesn't have to deal with a GPU and therefore has all 16 PCIe lanes available for Thunderbolt 3 - therefore it has 4 Thunderbolt 3 ports available to use.

This in theory makes the Mac mini 2018 a decent choice for people who are happy with Intel on board integrated video because they can use the 2 additional Thunderbolt ports for something else.

If you plug in an eGPU using one of the Thunderbolt 3 ports it'll only be using 4x PCIe lanes vs the 8x lanes that are used in an iMac but the GPU choices in the iMac are usually more anaemic than can be purchased and placed into an eGPU.

And in any case, the throughput difference between using a PC whose graphics card usually has a PCIe 3.0 16x slot, vs an iMac which is connecting the dGPU onboard using 8 lanes, and a Mac mini 2018 connecting eGPU via Thunderbolt 3 (4 lanes) probably spans only 10% in raw sustained performance.



Apple solve the shortage of Thunderbolt 3 ports by using an Intel Xeon CPU which has 48 lanes, plenty to drive a GPU (16 lanes), 2x4 lanes for RAID SSDs, and 4 full power Thunderbolt 3 ports (16 lanes) on the iMac and iMac Pro.

A $3-5k 2020 iMac (using just 16 lanes) has Titan Ridge which allows 6k XDR monitors at full resolution but not enough lanes overall.

It clearly would be better off starting off life as a 2020 refresh Xeon powered iMac Pro with full access to 4 Titan Ridge controlled Thunderbolt ports capable of driving a 32" 6k Apple Pro Display XDR at full resolution. It would be a mistake to keep the 2017 iMac Pro on sale when a 2019 iMac could actually drive that XDR display at full resolution instead!

I think the Titan Ridge controller (introduced in the Macbook Pro 15" 2018 and 16" 2019, and all iMac 2019 models, but not on the iMac Pro 2017 curiously) is something like $10-15 (and they use a SKU that allows 2 ports off a single TB3 controller) but its the lack of available PCIe lanes after connecting up a GPU that causes Apple the problem on the non-Pro iMac. Each Titan Ridge controller that Apple use splits 4 lanes across 2 ports. Obviously there's another good reason for the iMac Pro to get an update to include Titan Ridge on its Thunderbolt ports!
"It would be a mistake to keep the 2017 iMac Pro on sale when a 2019 iMac could actually drive that XDR display at full resolution instead!"

Are the proper Xeon's and other chips available? If so and if they don't update it this year, I think it's dead. I mean, I think it's dead anyway, although I can see why some hold out hope.

I'm just hoping for a 2020 refresh of the iMac---I suspect a redesign with a T2 chip and better cooling and....bye bye user replaceable RAM! Would love a 32 inch size with 6K, but will not get my hopes up. Right now, the iMac (not the Pro, just the regular one) is the only Mac without a T2 chip and you just know Apple wants that chip (or an updated sibling) in every machine.