No recess from French

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by iJohnHenry, Nov 25, 2011.

  1. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #1
    I heard this story first on CBC2, and laughed. Then I got mad.

    Quebec's language Nazis have finally taken the last step. You would think that they would be different, what with their Fatherland being so close to the real deal in Europe.

    And to say it won't be policed is pure BS. Grade punishment can be hidden.

    :mad:
     
  2. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #2
    I saw this too, but I don't really see a big deal. The school uses french and is promoting the language. Unless students are totally engaged through the school day it would be easy to put it off. Not to mention kids speaking different languages reduces the chance of.interaction between cultures.
     
  3. lewis82 macrumors 68000

    lewis82

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    #3
    If a francophone student goes to an anglophone school, people won't be offended to know that students are not allowed to speak french. Why the double standard?

    I agree that scanning during recess is unjustified though. It should only be applied during the classes, otherwise it's stepping on their rights.


    However calling us "language nazis" pretty much insults me. There's nothing wrong in protecting our official language. Some people's attitudes are overkill (renaming "Little Burgundy" shops to "Petit Bourgogne" would be utterly stupid), but luckily not all of them (there was a debate about cutting financing for anglophone cégeps, no action was taken since some people still have common sense). Our language is precious and I believe we have to keep it.
     
  4. AP_piano295 macrumors 65816

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    #4
    Languages are not precious, they are just means of communication. If people are naturally drifting away from French in Montreal than people should be allowed to drift away from French.

    Attempting to force people to use one language over another is bloody stupid.
     
  5. jsolares macrumors 6502a

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    #5
    Why does it need protection, there's a whole country with 64+ million people that speak it :p
     
  6. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #6
    As always, reading the article helps.

    A brief search shows that about 12% are English speakers so the majority must be speaking a language other than French or English.

    Language integration is the biggest key to success for immigrants. Especially those coming from male dominated, heavily religious societies where the mothers have little or no say in their children's education or social upbringing.
     
  7. lewis82 macrumors 68000

    lewis82

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    #7
    Yes, languages are precious, they are much more than a mean of communication. They are a part of a population's culture, they shape the people's lives, and traditions. It would be sad to become another subset of the global american culture, just because we weren't careful enough.

    And it's not forcing anyone. It's not forbidden to speak english in the street, at home, or even in shops. However, if one asks to be served in french by an employee, the employee has the obligation of speaking french (just as anglophones can be served in english most of the time). It's just a matter of following our official language policy.

    What we want to prevent is people being forced to speak another language that the one they learned because the business community decided they hired anglophones. Not sure anyone would be happy with spanish-only shops in downtown Manhattan, why should we accept english only?

    And a community in which immigrants are well integrated is much better than a segregated, ghetto'ed (pardon me the expression) community in which different ethnic groups do not blend. I don't think it has been achieved anywhere in the world but it is definitely an objective.
     
  8. likemyorbs macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

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    #8
    Global American culture?? And here i was thinking that America had American culture and all the other countries had their own. I learn something new every day!
     
  9. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #9
    Is Starbucks in China Chinese culture?
     
  10. likemyorbs macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

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    #10
    Is sushi in the US American culture? No. But it doesn't take away from ours. Starbucks in China doesn't take away from Chinese culture, just gives options.
     
  11. lewis82 macrumors 68000

    lewis82

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    #11
    :rolleyes:

    Have you ever heard the term "globalization"? How come Hollywood movies are shown everwhere in the world, leaving local, talented filmmakers unnoticed? Certainly not because they are good. It's just the American culture taking expansion beyond the US borders. Same goes with TV series (they managed to export Jersey Shore. Seriously?), those which are not directly shown are produced locally after having bought a license. Music is a little different, the market is more diverse, altough not that much. And even then, bands sing in english now, which wasn't the case a few years ago on the local scene.

    What we have here is multinational businesses producing content in one place and exporting everywhere, at the peril of local content producers, which have to adapt to survive, effectively ditching their own culture.
     
  12. Raid macrumors 68020

    Raid

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    #12
    While I do wish I knew more french (and it's getting worse without a lot of use) this rule is as absurd as it is pointless. :rolleyes: So while I agree with IJH's sentiment, Godwining the thread in the OP is -1 internetz. :eek:


    I'm not an expert in Québécois culture but I would highly suspect the 'interaction between cultures' (especially in Montréal) is not an issue.... but I'll leave it to lewis82 to confirm, cause he implied he lives in the la belle province.
     
  13. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #13
    I don't really see Americans as having a culture. Its more like consumerism mixed in with nostalgia.
     
  14. iJohnHenry thread starter macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #14
    And all of them laugh at the patois French that Quebecois use. :eek: :rolleyes:

    I had to strike while the iron cross was hot. ;)
     
  15. lewis82 macrumors 68000

    lewis82

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    #15
    The level of "interaction between cultures" is the same as in every big city, I guess. Populations of immigrants are somewhat evenly distributed in Montreal, with the exception of the more whealthy parts of the city (Westmount, for example, is like 99% white, anglophone, native Montrealers) and the poorest parts (Montréal-Nord has the highest number of immigrants). A lot of them speak english, altough there has been an history of accepting more immigrants from the Maghreb, and these typically speak french and arabic.
     
  16. AP_piano295 macrumors 65816

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    #16
    Is red bull in America, American culture or is it Austrian culture?

    We live in a globalized society, attempting to prevent the influx of foreign culture in order to preserve one's own is a waste of time.
     
  17. VideoFreek macrumors 6502

    VideoFreek

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    #17
    What the hell is it about the francophone world that compels them to "protect" their language so much more vigorously than any other? Is there an equivalent to L'Académie française, with its heavy-handed approach to maintaining the "purity" of French, in any other European language? If there is, I'm not aware of it. Having lived in Germany, I can say the Germans take a much more relaxed attitude toward the evolution of their everyday language. While some (mostly older) Germans decry the encroachment of English in particular, most Germans embrace this rather pragmatically, especially in the fields of business and commerce, IT, etc. Hell, sometimes Germans invent faux-angloisms ("das Handy", "mobbing") that don't actually exist in English!
     
  18. lewis82 macrumors 68000

    lewis82

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    #18
    Look up "Rat für deutsche Rechtschreibung" ;) The Académie Française just plain sucks though. While the Office Québécois de la Langue Française tries to keep the french language up to date (standardizing words such as courriel for email), the Académie refuses to move. Heck, they have a dictionnary in the works, with the first part (from A to C or something like that) having been released almost a century ago and the rest being unpublished. How useful, the official dictionnary is incomplete and obsolete.

    EDIT: it exists for pretty much every language except english. But I agree with you, l'Académie is the most hardcore.
     
  19. VideoFreek macrumors 6502

    VideoFreek

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    #19
    That was my point--I'm aware that these other "standards" bodies exist, but none seem to exert the totalitarian stranglehold over their respective tongues that l'AF does over French. It is interesting that the mongrel, unregulated mess that is English has become the world's lingua franca. This says something, perhaps, for facilitating dynamism and innovation in language as opposed to preservation and purism?
     
  20. Designer Dale macrumors 68040

    Designer Dale

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    #20
    If I call the ticket office of the Montreal Expos from the US, will they answer the phone in French?

    Dale
     
  21. latergator116 macrumors 68000

    latergator116

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    #21
    They won't answer. ;)
     
  22. iJohnHenry thread starter macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #22
    They will answer, for they still speak $$$$$$$$$. :D

    And anyone in Canada, that has problems with Bell telephone, should always ask for an Francophone tech. That way you don't get transferred to India, and the ciaos of accents. The Frogies on the phone always speak English better than I. ;)
     
  23. Shrink macrumors G3

    Shrink

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    #23
    Even beyond that, language shapes cognitive processes and the perception of reality. In the simplest terms, language defines logic, and defines reality in that if there isn't a label for something, for all intents and purposes, for that individual (and culture), it doesn't exist.

    Language is more than precious, it defines how we see the world.

    (This is off topic in that I am making no comment on language issues in Canada. Apologies to OP, other readers, and all Canadians.:D)
     
  24. KeriJane macrumors 6502a

    KeriJane

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    #24
    OT or not, I'd like to nominate this for best post.



    Very profound, especially for me as I'm starting to see this in action with my current language study.

    Thank you. :)
     
  25. iJohnHenry thread starter macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #25
    Unnecessary, for this speaks to language being used as a political tool.

    As we all live our lives in our heads, and no where else, it would serve Mindkind to adopt a single method of expressing ideas.
     

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