No Warrant? No problem

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by TedM, May 15, 2013.

  1. duneriderltr450 macrumors 6502

    duneriderltr450

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2012
    Location:
    Oregon
    #2
    LE was not in the wrong. They got a call for domestic violence. That is enough probable cause to enter the residence without a warrant to investigate.
     
  2. Gutwrench macrumors 65816

    Gutwrench

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    #3
    Yep, it's called exigent circumstances which is an exception to the warrant requirement. It'll all be sorted out in a 1538 hearing. LE did their job as far as I'm concerned.

    As an aside, Cotati is where Ramon Salcido butchered seven people in a DV including slitting the throat of his girls and dumping them in a landfill. One actually survived.
     
  3. TedM thread starter macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2012
    Location:
    California
    #4
    It seems more than excessive to me. I'd like to see the call that went to police about the domestic violence before making any final decisions. I really think police being able to enter the home without a warrant under any circumstances is just exploitation of rights.

    Back when I was in college the police and law makers made a social host ordinance. It allowed police to enter any premise in the city where a party where underage individuals were suspected of consuming alcohol.

    Seems legit? Not really as a "party" was defined as 5 people. That amount of people turned out to be the average amount of people that lived in a college house. And of course due to the age group police would always assume someone was a minor regardless of factual basis.

    Lawful? Damn right it was. Passed by the city council. Ethical? Probably not. I just hope this isn't a similar ambiguous definition that allows police to enter a person's home due to one phone call from some random dude. But I don't have all the facts.
     
  4. Gutwrench macrumors 65816

    Gutwrench

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    #5
    You can't be serious. You can not foresee any exigency that justifies a warrantless entry?

    The dispatched call is only one component. What the officers hear and see upon arrival is integral to their decision to make entry to check the welfare on the wife, husband, and children.
     
  5. Shrink macrumors G3

    Shrink

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    Location:
    New England, USA
    #6
    I'd have to split the difference with you. While domestic violence calls are extremely difficult for LE to handle, I guess I don't have a problem with the forced entry based on the need for safety of the inhabitants...exigency.

    However, I think the officers' actions after they entered were excessive.
     
  6. Peace macrumors Core

    Peace

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    #7
    Had the guy inside let the cops in this would not have happened. After that the legal stuff could have been straightened out.
     
  7. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    #8
    :confused:

    I have no idea why you'd bring up a murder case well over twenty years old.

    But perhaps we can turn it into a PRSI thing ... any time a town or region is mentioned, we can retell some gruesome detail of a long-passed tragic event.

    That would be sooo kewl.
     
  8. Gutwrench macrumors 65816

    Gutwrench

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    #9
    Because they were both DV related. Secondly Cotati is a small town and despite the Salcido case being 20 years old it certainly hasn't been forgotten. Now being a small town has nothing to do with how a judge would rule on the facts of this case in a 1538 hearing, it does realistically follow the Cotati cops will likely be sensitive to DVs and be able to articulate their concerns to support a warrantless entry. It really does not take much to justify an entry when a person's safety is in question.

    Does that clear it up for you?
     
  9. zin macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    #10
    If the guy gave the police permission to enter and talk over the situation with them, then perhaps this wouldn't have happened. I do not think the use of the taser was warranted, however.

    If there is an accusation of domestic violence, and the person being accused isn't allowing the police to peacefully dispel such accusation, then if I were in the same situation my own suspicions would steadily rise, too.
     
  10. rhett7660, May 16, 2013
    Last edited: May 16, 2013

    rhett7660 macrumors G4

    rhett7660

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    Sunny, Southern California
    #11
    Entering, no issue what so ever. Call for service, domestic violence, and an uncoop party at the location. Cops are going to enter, and make sure all parties are safe and sound.

    This lays out a good foundation for entry regarding domestic violence situations:

    http://fourthamendment.com/blog/ind...ence_call_is_exigency_no&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

    There are quite a few cases listed. While this particular case isn't listed, there are cases that one can us to "test" this particular scenario.

    This one talks about the use of force by the police after they have made entry:

    http://lawenforcementtoday.com/tag/exigent-circumstances/

    The actual case ruling:

    http://www.courts.state.co.us/Courts/Court_of_Appeals/opinion/2010/07ca2136.pdf

    I am not going to comment on the force used in the OP's original post though, as I do not know enough about what they officers saw once they did enter since we are only seeing the video from the perspective of the person shooting.
     
  11. tshrimp, May 16, 2013
    Last edited: May 16, 2013

    tshrimp macrumors 6502

    tshrimp

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2012
    #12
    Wow. This made me sick to my stomach to watch.

    Also, legally the police were in the wrong. They cannot ignore someones rights based on an anonymous tip. I will try and find some links for you.

    Here is a better write up on what happened, and does contain some of the legal information.

    http://freedomoutpost.com/2013/05/c...st-into-home-without-warrant-taze-homeowners/ Warning....this sight might contain partial conservatism :)


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_v._J._L. Even though this happened in Florida it did reach The United States Supreme Court.
     
  12. Gutwrench macrumors 65816

    Gutwrench

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    Jan 2, 2011
    #13
  13. rhett7660, May 16, 2013
    Last edited: May 16, 2013

    rhett7660 macrumors G4

    rhett7660

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    Sunny, Southern California
    #14
    That case is in a completely different context to what happened here. I have not seen this case applied to a case of an anonymous domestic violence call. Not saying it won't. Heck this might be the case that does it. I doubt it, but one never knows.
     
  14. tshrimp macrumors 6502

    tshrimp

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2012
    #15
    You are right. It is different, but still concerns the 4th amendment. Hard to find this exact case, so had to settle for other 4th Amendment cases.
     
  15. rhett7660 macrumors G4

    rhett7660

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2008
    Location:
    Sunny, Southern California
    #16
    This might apply:

    http://www.courts.state.co.us/Courts/Court_of_Appeals/opinion/2010/07ca2136.pdf

    Another one is: People v. Davis, 187P.3d 562, 563-64 (Colo. 2008) but I am having trouble finding the actual brief on it. This one is mentioned in the above PDF file.
     

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