NOT A JOKE: Obama Worries That Future Presidents Will Wage Perpetual, Covert Drone War

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by aaronvan, Oct 4, 2016.

  1. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #1
    No, this isn't an Onion satire piece. Obama is serious, he actually blames Congress for not reining in his drone program. The man is incapable of self-reflection. He may very well be insane.

    https://theintercept.com/2016/10/03...sidents-will-wage-perpetual-covert-drone-war/
     
  2. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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  3. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #3
    Reading the article and Earnest's update, it's clear that President Obama was handed a system that allowed drone strikes with absolutely no accountability, and that he added some band-aids to fix the problem.

    This seems about right. The White House and Congress like drone strikes because there's little blowback when compared to a full-on invasion. It allows us to specifically target "bad guys," rather than just pounding on a city from the air—see Aleppo or Grozny.

    The larger question is, should a president be allowed to launch these strikes without Congress?

    Now, I don't understand his argument that he cannot put himself under a restrictive system, but he's right that a future president can do whatever she wants because Congress won't act.

    And, Congress doesn't want to. Because doing so would mean they bear some responsibility and it's been clear for years that Congress would rather abrogate its war powers and complain when the war goes bad.
     
  4. lowendlinux Contributor

    lowendlinux

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    #4
    The presidents only issue is that he's not a commander he's a manager.
     
  5. Jess13, Oct 4, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2016

    Jess13 Suspended

    Jess13

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    #5
    The ‘D’ in Democrat is for Drones.

    Drones are possibly the biggest blowback creator. And Hoebama has, according to the Stanford & NYU study ‘Living Under Drones,’ killed more civilians with drones than Osama killed civilians with planes, and that’s in Pakistan alone not any other nations Hoebama also illegally mass murders men, women and children in extrajudicial assassinations.

    So no, drones do not “limit blowback”—they create more blowback (if your child was killed in a drone strike, you would be planting IEDs to hit coalition troops in revenge). And no, drones do not just target the “bad guys”; in Pakistan alone, 49 non-“bad guys” are killed for every 1 supposed “bad guy” (that’s a ratio of 49:1, with thousands already assassinated).

    Hoebama’s a mass murdering serial killer terrorist war criminal, his terrorism has killed more civilians than Osama’s had.


    DRONES.jpg
     
  6. Snoopy4 macrumors 6502a

    Snoopy4

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    #6
  7. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #7
    This President or all Presidents? Cause umm last I check the term Commander in Chief meant something.
     
  8. lowendlinux Contributor

    lowendlinux

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    #8
    How about this presidents
     
  9. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #9
    This President I would agree with you.
     
  10. Raid macrumors 68020

    Raid

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    #10
    and the 'R' in republicans is for WA'R' ... and the extra 'k' is for quality.

    Incase you wanted more trite...

    America: We support democracy, and we support the Syrian peoples fight for a democratic change!

    Assad: Oh yeah? We got guns, lots of em. Bang, bang,bang. BOOOM!!!

    America: Hey! That's not right! We'll give these 'rebels' help.

    'Murican Congress: Uh were getting bored of this war stuff, we didn't make enough out of Iraq. You got Bin Laden in Pakistan. You can still support freedom but no 'boots on ground' cause that makes a good sound bite... for us.. lolz!

    Obama: Geez guys what the hell, ah ok I guess we'll have to use airstrikes. Boom, Boom, BOOOOOMMMMM!!!!!

    Russia(Putin): <whispers> Hey Assad, your dad was pretty cool, looks like your stuff is getting messed up... we got planes you know...

    Assad: Sweet! Boom, Boom, BOOOOOMMMMM!!!!!

    Daesh: Muslim brothers and sisters! Look at what the west is doing to us, killing us from afar, the cowards don't even offer a target. Look at what they have done to your lives!!!

    Regular Muslim: Hey Daesh dudes, we just want the right to choose somebody else to lead us...

    Daesh: Death to the infidels and since you choose not to be lead by us (in the guise of how we interpret the prophet Mohammed) death to you!!1!!!!!11!!!!

    Regular Muslim: It sucks here, I'm getting out while I still can.

    'Murican Congress: Oh what an absolute mess but I don't think we should let those people fleeing Syria in though, cause... uh.... terrorism!

    Obama:Hey Russia what gives?

    Russia(Putin): You can't tell us what to do! Boom Boom Boom!

    'Murican Congress: Obama you're weak. We aren't going to mention we handcuffed you for this fight, but man you aren't doing enough to stop Russia and Assad.

    Obama: But guys what do I have but drones and airstrikes?

    'Murican Congress: Oh yeah, about that... we don't like the fact that you're using drones...

    ...
     
  11. Jess13 Suspended

    Jess13

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    #11
    Yep, Republicans generally are pro-war. What’s funny is, Democrat Warbama has bombed more countries than Republican G.W. Bush did and expanded serial killing drone terrorism more than 10x what G.W. Bush did.


    serial.jpg
     
  12. Rhonindk macrumors 68020

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    #12
    My worry / concern: Autonomous AI controlled drones.
     
  13. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #13


    That's not what your article said.

    The article noted that drones have the potential for blowback, but made no comparison to other forms of war-making, like invasions, special-forces led coups, or regular airstrikes.

    And, it's clear that this idea of comparison eludes you.


     
  14. Jess13, Oct 4, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2016

    Jess13 Suspended

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    #14
    My apologies, I misread your comment.

    You realize that drones are targeting cellphones? Thousands and thousands more civilians killed than “terrorists.” So no, they are not some “quality targeted strike weapon,” they’re a horribly flawed and imprecise weapon. Drones are terrorism, listen to the women and children who live under them, listen to the stories of wedding parties, brides and grooms, first responders and rescuers, and funerals Hoebama has blown up, among the thousands of men, women and children he has assassinated. Hoebama’s a mass murdering serial killer terrorist war criminal who’s murdered more civilians than Osama’s terrorism.

    You should watch this, I watched it same day it was published in 2015.


    Exclusive: Air Force Whistleblowers Risk Prosecution to Warn Drone War Kills Civilians, Fuels Terror

    http://www.democracynow.org/2015/11/20/exclusive_air_force_whistleblowers_risk_prosecution

    drones.png

    Has the U.S. drone war "fueled the feelings of hatred that ignited terrorism and groups like ISIS"? That’s the conclusion of four former Air Force servicemembers who are speaking out together for the first time. They’ve issued a letter to President Obama warning the U.S. drone program is one of the most devastating driving forces for terrorism. They accuse the administration of lying about the effectiveness of the drone program, saying it is good at killing people—just not the right ones. The four drone war veterans risk prosecution by an administration that has been unprecedented in its targeting of government whistleblowers. In a Democracy Now! exclusive, they join us in their first extended broadcast interview.
     
  15. impulse462 Suspended

    impulse462

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    #15
    no thread from aaronvan when congress refuses to do any job required of them and then blames obama
     
  16. aaronvan thread starter Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #16
    Imagine if Dick Cheney made this same statement. The lefties would be absolutely apoplectic.
     
  17. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #17


    It happens. Thanks.

    First, keep in mind that while drones can fly autonomously for a time, they are flown by human beings in the CIA and US Air Force.

    Second, while cellphones are used to triangulate and seek out a person, someone still has to aim the laser and launch the Hellfire.

    Third, they're not "horribly flawed and imprecise" when compared to the vast array of other weapons.

    A pilot flying an AH-64 Apache gunship would be targeting the individual with the same Hellfire missile (or, with the choice of firing a 30mm chain gun or Hydra rockets). A pilot flying an F-16 could toggle between his 20mm gun or, more likely would launch something like the JDAM, a "smart bomb" that varies from 500-pounds to 2,000-pounds.

    Now, all of this said, do U.S. drone pilots and their commanders launch weapons into areas where civilian casualties are not only likely, but assured? The evidence suggests that this is true.

    But, to compare these casualties to the casualties of Obama Bin Laden is to confuse facts by throwing in an emotional argument.

    In Iraq, U.S. forces directly killed at least 4,426 Iraqis and wounded nearly 32,000 others. But, the total casualties are far, far higher, reaching as many as 185,000, including coalition forces.

    Drone strikes in Pakistan killed up to 4,000 people, at least 966 were civilians, and of those around 207 were children. Around 1,750 people were injured.

    In Afghanistan, the U.S. launched up to 480 strikes, killing up to 2,747 people and injuring up to 258.

    In Yemen, the U.S. launched up to 155 strikes, killing up to 838 people, and injuring up to 232. (The total number of casualties in this war are between 8,000 to 10,000.)

    Drones are a red herring. The problem isn't unmanned aircraft, but rather the fact that the U.S. is at war in Afghanistan and Pakistan and is helping the Saudi's prosecute a civil war in their own backyard.
    --- Post Merged, Oct 4, 2016 ---
    And, the right would apparently be supporting drone strikes.
     
  18. Jess13 Suspended

    Jess13

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    #18
    No it isn’t confusion via emoting. If the Stanford & NYU study is correct, and it likely is, then in Pakistan alone, Hoebama has killed more civilians with drones than Osama killed civilians with planes.
     
  19. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #19
    Obama's interview with Jonathan Chait in New York Magazine is worth reading in its entirety.

    Much more besides.

    Obama goes on to make the point that he's invited Congress to play their part in a whole slew of issues, from Syria to the drone program, but they seem more than happy abrogating that responsibility. As Obama notes:

     
  20. aaronvan thread starter Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #20
    Obama will spend the rest of his life writing books and making speeches; an endless apology tour for his utter failure as president.
     
  21. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #21
    Drones are terrorism. Watch any interview with the families and children of Afghanistan and Iraq, they know the planes are there constantly, they know they can drop death upon them at any time. It's disgusting, but it's OK because it's the "good guys" inflicting mass psychological trauma on an entire generation in several countries....I'm sure this will never blow up in our faces down the road.
     
  22. Rhonindk macrumors 68020

    Rhonindk

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    #22
    Picking and choosing.
    If we do nothing. If we use drones. If we flat out invaded. If we totally obliterated.
    These all have consequences. Negative consequences. We have no choice but to pick one.
     
  23. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #23
    We had no business invading Iraq. Hell even when it comes to Afghanistan they offered to turn Osama Bin Laden over to a neutral third party country for trial but Bush said no. This has all been a farce and a power grab from various agencies, industries, and power brokers.

    I'm done being delicate about this, US foreign policy is based mostly on what powerful economic forces dictate. We reverse engineer "evidence" for invasions based on the initial goal of opening up country X or Y to interest A or B.
     
  24. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #24
    My worry / concern: Autonomous AI controlled drones programmed by extremists and lunatic dictatorial heads of state.
     
  25. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #25
    An F-117 can drop a JDAM from 40,000 feet and let the weapon guide itself silently until impact, landing a 500-pound bomb in someone's midst. Or, a MQ-9 Reaper at 16,000 feet can launch a Hellfire, carrying a 20-pound warhead.

    If you're the target, this difference is academic.

    But, if you're in an Afghan neighborhood where the Taliban have taking over a nearby walled compound, the second option is far less likely to kill you and your whole family.
     

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