not sure who to blame, but this is shameful...

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Keebler, Aug 29, 2007.

  1. Keebler macrumors 68030

    Joined:
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    Canada
    #1
    Hi,

    I'm about to possibly open a can of worms here. My statement below isn't meant to be post about the war in iraq b/c that is another subject.

    However, it is quite shameful that the US government is spending and directing so many resources to that war, instead of helping out their own people. As this article states, 80% of the funds are directed to the Katrina effort, but i wonder how much would have been rebuilt had the RESOURCES been directed to that area...ie. people and machines.

    I do realize that perhaps some parts of that area are beyond fixing possibly, but i don't know anything for sure.

    i just think it's sad and the US government, or better yet - whomever is ultimately responsible b/c i realize it's not the entire govt, should be ashamed of themselves.

    http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/29/katrina.day/index.html

    Cheers,
    Keebler
     
  2. Queso macrumors G4

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2006
    #2
    Have Louisiana/Mississippi requested the assistance from the Federal Government? If not, the fault lies with the state. If so, it lies in Washington.
     
  3. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #3
    Yeah, they asked a long time ago.
     
  4. grafikat macrumors 6502a

    grafikat

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2003
    #4
    Asked and Promised. But only partially delivered and mismanaged at that.


    But, that seems to be a trend with both topics mentioned in this post.
     
  5. SMM macrumors 65816

    SMM

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Tiger Mountain - WA State
    #5
    Rat posted on another thread that FEMA has a history of bungling disastrous relief, and he has first-hand experience. I cannot match that, having never been in a natural disaster zone.

    But, I have watched considerable news coverage, and numerous documentaries. I always came away thinking FEMA was a real bright spot (as federal agencies go). That is why I was so shocked to watch what was happening in NO. It seemed like a scene from a fourth-world country; not the richest, most technologically advanced one.

    Everything seemed totally disorganized. The CNN reporters, providing the early coverage, were pissing their pants. It was obvious their view of American was shaken to its roots. Those of you, who were watching, will remember how disoriented they were. With the number of military bases within a helo ride of NO, we should have had troops on the ground within four hours. Especially ones that should have been 'on alert' with a potentially damaging calamity known to be heading that way.

    If someone had told the drug czar they were smoking pot in the superdome, the place would have been swarming with agents within an hour!

    We have spent enough money on Iraq reconstruction, building bases in Iraq, plus the iraq embassy, to have built a new home for everyone in Louisiana. No secret where our priorities lie. Afterall, we are the country that provides Billions in tax relief to those making over a million dollars a year, while our city streets are covered with desperate, homeless families.
    :(
     
  6. Abstract macrumors Penryn

    Abstract

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    Location Location Location
    #6
    Yes, they asked.

    However, it seems like such an unimportant formality. Your people are struggling from the devastating effect of a natural disaster. You're the federal government, and you have mismanaged it from the beginning. You should still be trying to help out. I know there's a process by which States need to follow when they require assistance, but surely this is one of those situations where the government can just step in.
     
  7. AHDuke99 macrumors 68020

    AHDuke99

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    Location:
    Charleston, SC
    #7
    the whole thing was a debunkle by not only the mayor of new orleans, but also the governor. and what happened? the good citizens of new orleans re-elected him!
     
  8. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

    Joined:
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    LaLaLand, CA
    #8
    As 'rat and I discussed in the other thread, no one will argue that. Local gov made a lot of mistakes. But as I also pointed out, that doesn't charge the fact that the feds completely screwed up. In some case, actually even making things worse.

    I can post the same links proving my point as I did in that thread, but for some reason I'm thinking people like you and SL will still blame the victims for daring to be poor and actually thinking their gov wouldn't drop the ball as completely as they did.
     
  9. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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    #9
    Debunkle :confused:
     
  10. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    Jul 4, 2003
    Location:
    Terlingua, Texas
    #10
    I've not been to New Orleans; probably won't go. But a couple of months back the Boss Lady and I peeled off I-10 and drove US 90 across Mississippi.

    What's not been rebuilt is a lot of the houses that used to face the Gulf. And, they're still missing some restaurants and casinos. I saw blank spots where there had been buildings which survived 1969's Camille.

    Many folks just flat won't come back to give Maw Nature another shot at them. They're not gonna rebuild.

    Public infrastructure has pretty much been rebuilt, although a couple of bridges weren't quite done at the time; the east-end bridge on US 90, for one.

    No federal program beyond guaranteeing low-interest rate loans has ever been in place for any residents of a disaster area, after the basic cleanup period. Rebuilding your house has always been up to you and your insurance company. Still is.

    So where's the "shameful"?

    As far as screwups, what with the Dome having been mentioned above: How do you think Nagin got the nickname "Schoolbus"? Remember that they could have used the 300+ school buses to haul people from the Dome to at least Baton Rouge. "No drivers." Duh? So an eighteen-year-old kid steals one, loads it with people, and drives to Houston. His first time to drive a school bus. 300 buses times 100 people = 30,000 people evacuated, you should check my math.l

    And the Coast Guard stopped locals with outboard boats from doing rescue attempts because of "not enough life jackets on board". In chest-deep water...

    Y'know, in the several years I've been posting here, I've observed beaucoup gripings about governmental failures of one sort or another. Medical stuff, guns, money, education, environment, disasters. A common view is that government should be all things to all people, particularly the poor.

    We've gone from a federal budget of 0.7 trillion dollars when Reagan took office to a proposed 2.8 trillion dollars for 2008. Over a 28-year period, that's lots of trillions. Most of it has gone for some form of social spending. State and local spending has paralleled the feds.

    I do not see where life has been made better via all this spending. It's been posted here in this forum that we have more "official" poor now than when LBJ's War on Poverty began. (It wasn't phrased in that manner, but the numbers that were given did so indicate.)

    As I commented in the Katrina thread, you're on your own. We're on our own, all of us. Sure, government can help and should help. But no matter the subject, the bottom line is that only you can make life better for you. Only you can take care of you when times get hard.

    And if you pick the wrong place to live and nature harvests your house, there never has been any governmental program to give you a new one. (Well, actually, Bush's FEMA trailer system is the first instance of "new homes" for disaster victims, for all that it was set up as a temporary deal. Anybody here giving thanks to Dubya for that? :D:D:D )

    'Rat
     
  11. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    Location:
    Chicago, Illinois
    #11

    Fine- can I have all the money that went to help victims of all of Florida's hurricanes then? Seems they got fixed up down there right quick like, now didn't they? Wonder why?

    Maybe we should also forbid any new building in thoe areas as well.
     
  12. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    Terlingua, Texas
    #12
    "Fixed up just fine"? Well, finally. The I-10 bridge across the bay at Pensacola just got opened rather recently--left over problem from Ivan, doncha know.

    And infrastructure repairs weren't any faster in Florida than in Louisiana or Mississippi, except as the comparative amounts of damage. Generally, in Florida, lesser amounts of majaor damage, a helluva lot more minor damage. In part because of lesser storms, although more numerous.

    Actually, along I-10, motel room availability was more of a problem for a longer time in eastern Alabama and west of Tallahassee, Florida than in Louisiana. Work crews brought in for repairs filled the motels. By that measure, one could say Florida had more problems. (Well, the damage was over a larger area. More of the "little bit here, little bit there" type of damage.)

    (I make some four round trips a year from west Texas to south Georgia, using I-10. Many of my comments on this hurricane stuff are from Mark I eyeball.)

    'Rat
     
  13. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    Chicago, Illinois
    #13
    Point being- we're still sending them money, fixing things for them and not suggesting they not rebuild. It happens a lot more often in Florida too.
     
  14. Lyle macrumors 68000

    Lyle

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    Location:
    Madison, Alabama
    #14
    I'm guessing he meant "debacle". But debunkle sounds like a fun word too.
     
  15. Desertrat macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2003
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    Terlingua, Texas
    #15
    From today's "Daily Reckoning", an investment newsletter:

    “Almost two years after Hurricane Katrina battered the Gulf Coast, the government, private enterprise and charities continue to pour billions into cleanup efforts,” Bulletin Board Elite’s Greg “Gunner” Guenthner tells us. “As of last summer, the federal government alone shelled out $3.6 billion to cart off nearly 100 million cubic yards of debris from the area. And cleanup efforts continue to this very day."

    'Rat
     
  16. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    totally cool
    #16
    washington times
     
  17. DiamondMac macrumors 68040

    DiamondMac

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2006
    Location:
    Washington, D.C.
    #17
    As someone who has lived down here my entire life, I am amazed at so many things dealing with Katrina.

    1) I am AMAZED at how terrible the media has become in recent articles dealing with the city. I am sure many here have read recent articles stating that New Orleans is still a total and complete mess, etc...but the fact is, MUCH of the city is in fact BACK and most parts are running Pre-Katrina level. St. Charles Street...fine. French Quarter...fine. Downtown...fine. Most resturants are open and HAVE BEEN for quite awhile. More open weekly.

    I read these articles from the LATimes and Ashville papers and I see people literally MAKING UP facts and stories. It's sad. The LATimes recently had an article that showed a picture of the 9th Ward and the whole article dealing with seeing houses like that "all around New Orleans"...huh? I work downtown, live uptown, and drive all around for work....I rarely if ever see houses like that.

    I think this Editorial hit the mark with the media and their complete lack of truth in making an article about the city. I have in fact worked at a major newspaper for several months and was a Journalism-Newspaper major in college...I know why they write these types of articles....it makes for a better story. http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200770904114

    2) Blame....why do people continue to blame one person, one group, one political section for Katrina? STOP IT. The reason Katrina was such a failure was because EVERYONE failed the city. The locals, the State, & the feds...we all screwed up. I personally hate George Bush but I have no problem sticking up for him when it comes to people acting like he caused the Katrina problems. Seems politics always comes up with Katrina when there is no need to bring it up.

    If we want to start fixing the problems in Mississippi and Louisiana...we need to stop blaming everyone else and start working.

    I deal with Ray Nagin every few days and to say he is a complete idiot would be an under-statement. Guy is a lost cause.
     
  18. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    Jun 25, 2002
    Location:
    LaLaLand, CA
    #18
    Good news isn't news. I'm sure there's a lot that's good now. That is good to hear. We're still angry at what isn't though, because they didn't just let you down, they let us all down. And it's scary to think it could happen to any of us. Listening to people like Harry Shearer, he does see the good there too, but also still sees a lot of the bad, and wants people to know it isn't as rosy as some people are trying to purport to absolve themselves of their responsibility.

    Most of us are blaming everyone. A lot of people dropped the ball, especially before with the levees and after with the FEMA recovery attempt that wound up making things worse. Local and federal screwed up. We're not saying it's all GW's fault, but he and his ilk do share some culpability that some want to dismiss and pass completely to local, or worse, to the victims themselves. Some who couldn't leave (like the elderly) and a lot of those who didn't think it would be that bad. Which it wouldn't have been had the levees not broken and had gov not made things worse. Again, local and fed.

    As you said though, plenty of blame to go around, and most of us would agree.

    Some of us think there is, because politics are what failed you guys down there (and continue to do so) and that's just not acceptable to any of us, nor should be.
     
  19. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    Location:
    Chicago, Illinois
    #19
    Exactly- but what burns me is, when everything else fails, we should be able to count on the fed. Why the hell else are they there? This is (supposedly) the most wealthy country in the world. We should be able to handle a crisis of this magnitude more effectively, especially when it was predicted in the first place.
     

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