Now Brexit wants to go to court in Ireland!

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by cube, Dec 9, 2016.

  1. cube macrumors G5

    Joined:
    May 10, 2004
  2. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Location:
    UK
    #2
    Apparently treaties always say if they aren't reversible - and this one doesn't, so...
     
  3. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2009
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
  4. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Location:
    UK
    #4
    Should gay marriage supporters have given up after proposition 8?
     
  5. steve23094 macrumors 68020

    steve23094

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2013
    #5
    This is in direct opposition to the UK Supreme Court case where both parties conceded 50 was not reversible. I read a legal opinion piece that was of the view if the Government's lawyers hadn't made that concession they could have won the case.

    It's all largely irrelevant now. I made a prediction a long time ago that if Parliament or the Lords played 'silly buggers' with Brexit then May will call an election and Labour will be wiped out. The Conservatives would then be returned with a larger majority and mandate for Brexit. The latest two by-election results have reinforced that likelihood and no doubt Labour are nervously looking over their shoulder, hence no heavy opposition to the recent vote in Parliament.
     
  6. Eraserhead, Dec 10, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2016

    Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Location:
    UK
    #6
    Nope - http://nowweknow.co.uk/is-triggering-article-50-reversible/


    If the Tories call a general election then pro-remain seats like Witney, which have been Tory forever, will become competitive. And given UKIP is also in a state of collapse, I'm not actually convinced the Labour Party would lose their seats in the north of the UK.

    And if the Tories lost seats like Witney in the home countries they'd struggle to win a majority as they'd have to do vastly better in the rest of the country than they have at any point since 1970.
     
  7. steve23094, Dec 10, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2016

    steve23094 macrumors 68020

    steve23094

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2013
    #7
    Both parties agreed in the Supreme Court that 50 wasn't reversible, so what part of what I said is wrong? It might be reversible, but if that's the case then the Supreme Court ruling was wrong.

    The Labour party disagrees on their electoral chances with you for the reasons I have outlined. Their problem is Corbyn (being so incredibly unpopular with the general Labour vote) and they are now stuck with him until the next election.

    BTW You never took me up on my bet. Probably a wise decision on your part, but the offer is still there.
     
  8. profmatt macrumors 65816

    profmatt

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2015
    Location:
    UK
    #8
    Actually, it's the beginning of a new, very long, story.

    There is no agreement on what Brexit actually means and no specific option was put to the people in the referendum.

    The people did not vote for the abandonment of the rule of law. Since Magna Carta the rights of the people to seek legal redress has been pretty clear. You don't get more British than that. This, after all, is what the Brexiteers claimed they were voting for.

    Unless they really were just all racist morons.
     
  9. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Location:
    UK
    #9
    Maybe we should have a written constitution so it's clear.

    The Labour party doesn't have to agree, if there's dog-whistles that Labour supporters should vote Lib Dem in Witney then people will. Especially if the Oxfordshire Labour Party does the dog whistling (and the central party being weak makes that easier). And don't forget in Witney, the combined Labour and Lib Dem vote was higher than the Tory vote.

    And the same that plays out in Richmond and Witney can play out in Berkshire, Southern Buckinghamshire, Surrey, Hertfordshire, outer London etc etc.

    The Tories also have an issue that a lot of support for them is on the basis of economic competence and if Brexit takes that away, long term it puts them in a tough spot.

    Sadly I didn't think the moderators would ever agree :(.
     
  10. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2009
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    #10
    Vote our way or you are a moron, got it, next.
    --- Post Merged, Dec 10, 2016 ---
    A country's sovereignty or lack there of is a choice. Some people are tired of being puppets.
     
  11. steve23094 macrumors 68020

    steve23094

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2013
    #11
    This is a trope remoaners wheel out that is just not born out by the facts. We knew Brexit meant leaving the single market. All leading figures on both sides of the debate, including Gisela Stuart, David Cameron, Michael Gove, Boris Johnson, George Osborne and Andrea Leadsom, confirmed a leave EU vote meant precisely that. See 6m9s.

     
  12. cube thread starter macrumors G5

    Joined:
    May 10, 2004
    #12
    - I don't think there was any ruling by the UK Supreme Court that A50 is not reversible
    - The person who wrote the article said that the way the whole treaty is written, if an article does not prevent it, it is reversible.
    - They want to bring the case to Ireland so that it ends up in the ECJ, who has the ultimate authority in the interpretation of the treaty. Apparently the UK courts would not want to defer to the ECJ.
     
  13. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Location:
    UK
    #13
    Even the daily express didn't think that after the vote - http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/683276/European-Union-EFTA-Norway-EU-referendum-Brexit
     
  14. steve23094 macrumors 68020

    steve23094

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2013
    #14
    Technically you're right. But the ruling was that Ministers could not unilaterally remove rights afforded to the people. If 50 is reversible than it's not the triggering itself that definitively removes those rights but a later process further down the line.

    This point has been made by some constitutional experts. I hold no opinion either way because I'm not an expert in the field, I'm merely noting that some people have made that case.
    --- Post Merged, Dec 10, 2016 ---
    That doesn't matter. I'm showing that there wasn't disagreement about leaving the single market and that information was in the public domain before the referendum. Remoaners typically claim otherwise.
     
  15. Zenithal macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2009
    #15
    What would the result be if parliament decides to overrule the will of the people? I stopped keeping up with English parliament in the 2000s and don't know who the players are now and what could happen in the current political climate and the country's turmoil. Are we looking at peaceful protests, a degeneration of protest commonly seen among Americans or something akin to... the 2007 or 2009 (I forget which) tuition fee protests across the country?
     
  16. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Location:
    UK
    #16
    If the Daily Express thought leaving the single market wasn't clear at the time of the referendum, then it wasn't clear.
     
  17. cube thread starter macrumors G5

    Joined:
    May 10, 2004
    #17
    This effort has raised almost half of their funding target in one night.
     
  18. DearthnVader macrumors 6502a

    DearthnVader

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2015
    Location:
    Red Springs, NC
    #18
    Yet another example of Globalist not accepting the results of Democracy.

    Shocking, shocking, I tell you. It's almost as if Global Elitists don't care about the will of the people.
     
  19. cube thread starter macrumors G5

    Joined:
    May 10, 2004
    #19
    - It is not for the UK to decide if A50 is reversible. This is applicable to every country in the EU.
    - If A50 is reversible, it does not mean the UK cannot choose to indeed leave the EU.
    - If you say A50 is not reversible, you are agreeing with what some EU leaders told the UK.
     
  20. steve23094 macrumors 68020

    steve23094

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2013
    #20
    The article you linked doesn't say that at all, it's just a report on what a specific think tank wants and not an opinion piece from the editor. e.g. here is another Express article reporting that somebody else thinks we should leave the single market http://www.express.co.uk/finance/ci...-Britain-stays-in-single-market-top-economist
     
  21. Zenithal macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2009
    #21
    If the will of the people presents an elementary danger to the country's future stability, the government would be obligated to step in and prevent that from happening.
     
  22. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Location:
    UK
    #22
    You do realise the Express is rabidly pro Brexit?

    So if they weren't slamming a soft Brexit that shows really it wasn't clear...

    And your article is much more recent. I've no interest in how history has been rewritten since the vote.
    --- Post Merged, Dec 10, 2016 ---
    Yep. And Trump is one of them.
     
  23. steve23094 macrumors 68020

    steve23094

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2013
    #23
    You're making a very poor case and when I directly rebut your statements you shift your argument. You're attempting and failing to equate reporting on a subject to a paper's editorial stance. By your logic each time a news organisation reports on a topic they are agreeing with that viewpoint, which is patently untrue.
     
  24. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Location:
    UK
    #24
    You're trying to claim that it was completely clear before the vote what Brexit means. It wasn't and it frankly still isn't.
     
  25. DearthnVader macrumors 6502a

    DearthnVader

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2015
    Location:
    Red Springs, NC
    #25
    Really, how so, do tell.

    Everyone understood the rules of the election, before the election. We have a Republic, not a Democracy. We use the Electoral College, not the results of the popular vote, for, as you have found, in a Democracy there is nothing to stop the majority from voting all rights and property away from the minority.

    If anyone wanted to challenge the Electoral College system, they should have done it before the election. Trump didn't care about the popular vote, for he didn't need to win it. You act as if he couldn't have won the popular vote, as if campaigning means nothing.

    What you wish, is not political fact.
     

Share This Page