Nurse arrested for refusing to let officer take blood from unconscious victim

mudslag

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Oct 18, 2010
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http://www.sltrib.com/pb/news/2017/08/31/utah-nurse-arrested-after-complying-with-hospital-policy-that-bars-taking-blood-from-unconscious-victim



A nurse says she was assaulted and illegally arrested by a Salt Lake City police detective for following a hospital policy that does not allow blood draws from unconscious patients.

Footage from University Hospital and officer body cameras shows Detective Jeff Payne and nurse Alex Wubbels in a standoff over whether the policeman should be allowed to get a blood sample from a patient who had been injured in a July 26 collision in northern Utah that left another driver dead.

Wubbels says blood cannot be taken from an unconscious patient unless the patient is under arrest, unless there is a warrant allowing the draw or unless the patient consents. The detective acknowledges in the footage that none of those requirements is in place, but he insists that he has the authority to obtain the draw, according to the footage.
 
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VulchR

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Jun 8, 2009
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This is why we have to be eternally vigilant. Not only should the police pay, not only should the police officers involved be fired, but the officers should be arrested for assault, false arrest, and trying to violate the civil rights of the patient. The police should never be allowed to force a medical procedure without a warrant. Disgusting.

EDIT: Also, I think the nurse deserves a medal.

EDIT 2: If I were the administrators of that hospital, I would ban the police from entering the premisses unless they have warrants or some other proof of official police business, for clearly the police have shown their willingness to harass staff and violate the rights of patients.
 
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sodapop1

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Not only should the police pay, not only should the police officers involved be fired, but the officers should be arrested for assault, false arrest, and trying to violate the civil rights of the patient. The police should never be allowed to force a medical procedure without a warrant. Disgusting.
Agreed, the arresting officer and more importantly his boss who actually told him to go draw the blood without a warrant should both be arrested and have their day in court.
 

mudslag

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https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=9806833505253407923&hl=en&as_sdt=6&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr

Supreme Court has ruled that they can force draw blood without consent/warrant due to the disappearing nature of alcohol.

If the officer assaulted the nurse that's another matter.


That ruling is a bit out of date

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birchfield_v._North_Dakota

Birchfield v. North Dakota, 579 U.S. ___ (2016), was a case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held that the search incident to arrestdoctrine permits law enforcement to conduct warrantless breath tests but not blood tests on suspected drunk drivers.[1]
 
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0098386

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Is this a strange religious Christian thing? I know that some Christians don’t believe in blood transfusions.

And another thing- American cops man. What aggressive people.
 

poloponies

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Zombie Acorn

macrumors 65816
Feb 2, 2009
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That ruling is a bit out of date

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birchfield_v._North_Dakota

Birchfield v. North Dakota, 579 U.S. ___ (2016), was a case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held that the search incident to arrestdoctrine permits law enforcement to conduct warrantless breath tests but not blood tests on suspected drunk drivers.[1]
Thanks, it appears the more recent ruling that you posted supercedes what was originally decided.

In this case if the person was incapacitated you wouldn't be able to do a breath test either. This could be deemed an accidental death even though the guy is drunk in this case.
[doublepost=1504276212][/doublepost]
So how do feel about that? Personal violation by the police?
I didn't post an opinion about it, just adding to the discussion with a previous ruling. There definitely is a balancing act here.
[doublepost=1504276421][/doublepost]
Don't forget the police were trying to obtain a blood sample from the VICTIM of the car crash. Why are the police trying to get a drug screen from the victim of a crash caused by high speed police chase? Hmm....
Didn't catch that part, makes this story even more bizarre.
 

Zenithal

macrumors G3
Sep 10, 2009
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Would be in my state. This is Utah. I've been there. It's not bad for exploration or being in Salt Lake during the winter. Otherwise, it's a crappy place to be.
Is this a strange religious Christian thing? I know that some Christians don’t believe in blood transfusions.

And another thing- American cops man. What aggressive people.
You're thinking of Jehovas Witnesses. Utahans are Mormons. They have their own list of forbidden fruit including caffeine and alcohol. Nutters. The lot of them.
 
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MDMachiavelli

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Mar 14, 2015
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Don't forget the police were trying to obtain a blood sample from the VICTIM of the car crash. Why are the police trying to get a drug screen from the victim of a crash caused by high speed police chase? Hmm....

In this case "victim" could be a very, very ambiguous label.

Automobile accident investigations involving fatalities can be very complex and take days to complete. When there is a fatality involved the victim may just as well be the suspect.
[doublepost=1504284427][/doublepost]
That ruling is a bit out of date

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birchfield_v._North_Dakota

Birchfield v. North Dakota, 579 U.S. ___ (2016), was a case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held that the search incident to arrestdoctrine permits law enforcement to conduct warrantless breath tests but not blood tests on suspected drunk drivers.[1]
I'm not sure your ruling is applicable to this case. I think this involves more of police using blood test as a routine test during what is known as "DUI Refusal".
 
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mudslag

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In this case "victim" could be a very, very ambiguous label.

Automobile accident investigations involving fatalities can be very complex and take days to complete. When there is a fatality involved the victim may just as well be the suspect.
[doublepost=1504284427][/doublepost]

I'm not sure your ruling is applicable to this case. I think this involves more of police using blood test as a routine test during what is known as "DUI Refusal".

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/09/01/this-is-crazy-sobs-utah-hospital-nurse-as-cop-roughs-her-up-arrests-her-for-doing-her-job/


It all started when a suspect speeding away from police in a pickup truck on a local highway smashed head-on into a truck driver, as local media reported. Medics sedated the truck driver, who was severely burned, and took him to the University of Utah Hospital. He arrived in a comatose state, according to the Deseret News. The suspect died in the crash.

A neighboring police department sent Payne, a trained police phlebotomist, to collect blood from the patient and check for illicit substances, as the Tribune reported. The goal was reportedly to protect the trucker, who was not suspected of a crime. His lieutenant ordered him to arrest Wubbels if she refused to let him draw a sample, according to the Tribune.

“So why don’t we just write a search warrant,” the officer wearing the body camera says to Payne.

“They don’t have PC,” Payne responds, using the abbreviation for probable cause, which police must have to get a warrant for search and seizure.
He adds that he plans to arrest the nurse if she doesn’t allow him to draw blood. “I’ve never gone this far,” he says.

.........
In Thursday’s news conference, Wubbels’s attorney Karra Porter said that Payne believed he was authorized to collect the blood under “implied consent,” according to the Tribune. But Porter said “implied consent” law changed in Utah a decade ago. And in 2016, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that warrantless blood tests were illegal. Porter called Wubbels’s arrest unlawful.

“The law is well-established. And it’s not what we were hearing in the video,” she said. “I don’t know what was driving this situation.”

The law is not on the side of the police in this case.
 

kobalap

macrumors 6502
Nov 30, 2009
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http://www.sltrib.com/pb/news/2017/08/31/utah-nurse-arrested-after-complying-with-hospital-policy-that-bars-taking-blood-from-unconscious-victim



A nurse says she was assaulted and illegally arrested by a Salt Lake City police detective for following a hospital policy that does not allow blood draws from unconscious patients.

Footage from University Hospital and officer body cameras shows Detective Jeff Payne and nurse Alex Wubbels in a standoff over whether the policeman should be allowed to get a blood sample from a patient who had been injured in a July 26 collision in northern Utah that left another driver dead.

Wubbels says blood cannot be taken from an unconscious patient unless the patient is under arrest, unless there is a warrant allowing the draw or unless the patient consents. The detective acknowledges in the footage that none of those requirements is in place, but he insists that he has the authority to obtain the draw, according to the footage.

Meh. She should be grateful she didn't get shot.
 

Gutwrench

Contributor
Jan 2, 2011
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Payne was performing mutual aid to an allied agency to draw blood. When the nurse refused him access to the person he escalated to arrest?

Do I understand this correctly?

Edit: okay I read it again. He consulted a lieutenant. Sorry.
 

MDMachiavelli

macrumors regular
Mar 14, 2015
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N0, what I was saying is that the Supreme Court Ruling referenced earlier concerning drawing blood from an incapacitated driver is not applicable. What I was referring to has nothing to do with whether the nurse was mistreated or not by the police officer. How she was treated is completely different from what I was referring to.
 

kobalap

macrumors 6502
Nov 30, 2009
349
2,160
This is why we have to be eternally vigilant. Not only should the police pay, not only should the police officers involved be fired, but the officers should be arrested for assault, false arrest, and trying to violate the civil rights of the patient. The police should never be allowed to force a medical procedure without a warrant. Disgusting.
Here is the thing, and black people have been telling us this for decades, police corruption is rampant. You think this officer is one bad apple in his department? Take a close listen to the other officer - when questioned if they have a warrant, his response is, why don't we just write one? Also, Detective Payne is claiming that he was told you his lieutenant to arrest the nurse if she doesn't allow the blood draw.

By my count, that is 2 cops who should be fired and 1 who should go to jail for assault. At the very least, those are 3 people who have zero business being armed and being empowered to have authority to enforce their will on the civilian population.

Now let's go to the reason as to why they were going to draw blood in the first place, this is what is being claimed:

It all started when a suspect speeding away from police in a pickup truck on a local highway smashed head-on into a truck driver, as local media reported. Medics sedated the truck driver, who was severely burned, and took him to the University of Utah Hospital. He arrived in a comatose state, according to the Deseret News. The suspect died in the crash.

A neighboring police department sent Payne, a trained police phlebotomist, to collect blood from the patient and check for illicit substances, as the Tribune reported. The goal was reportedly to protect the trucker, who was not suspected of a crime. His lieutenant ordered him to arrest Wubbels if she refused to let him draw a sample, according to the Tribune.
The cops were there to draw blood from an innocent third party who got hit when a suspect sped away from the police. The police went to collect blood to check the third party for illicit substances to "protect" him. Does that make sense? Why would he need protection? He is not suspected of a crime, there is no evidence he has consumed any illicit substances. The only thing that could happen is that they do find drugs in the third party's system. And then what?

There is nothing about the cops' side of the story that doesn't stink. And we're not talking about just one bad apple either.

Honestly, the only silver lining in this story is that Detective Payne didn't bring his bayonet or grenade launcher. God only knows what would have happened then.
 
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