NVIDIA trying to ban the, S4, S5, Note 3 and 4, Edge, and some tablets from US Sales

Discussion in 'Alternatives to iOS and iOS Devices' started by lavrishevo, Oct 8, 2014.

  1. lavrishevo, Oct 8, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2014

    lavrishevo macrumors 68000

    lavrishevo

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    #1
    So typical of Samsung. Can't seem to do things without stealing from others. First Apple now NVIDIA is after them.


    http://news.yahoo.com/galaxy-note-4-other-samsung-android-devices-facing-234540542.html
     
  2. kenypowa macrumors 6502a

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    #2
    Other than NVIDIA SoC, Samsung Exynos and Qualcomm Snapdragon S4, 400, 600, 800, 801 and 805 probably powered 90% of all Android devices. So it's not just Samsung. NVIDIA is suing its two biggest rivals.
     
  3. skratch77 macrumors 65816

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  4. Switchback666 macrumors 68000

    Switchback666

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    #4

    Exactly, something the op failed to comment.
     
  5. Dontazemebro macrumors 68020

    Dontazemebro

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    #5
    My question is why just Samsung? Isn't every OEM in the market using the same GPUs?

    Doesn't Apple use Imagination's Power VR?
     
  6. jrswizzle macrumors 603

    jrswizzle

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    #6
    I don't know about others, but doesn't Apple heavily modify their CPUs and GPUs - essentially designing them?

    Could it be a licensing thing - Samsung has shown a penchant for not wanting to pay licensing fees. These other companies may all have their licensing deals in place.
     
  7. lavrishevo thread starter macrumors 68000

    lavrishevo

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    #7
    The other companies and paying for the rights to use the technology.
     
  8. sc4rf4c3, Oct 8, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2014

    sc4rf4c3 macrumors regular

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  9. Dontazemebro macrumors 68020

    Dontazemebro

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    #9
    But it's not really the companies but more so the component manufacturers. And if they were paying for the technology, why are they being mentioned in the ban?

    Maybe that's possibly it. Even still would that exclude HTC, LG, Sony and the rest?

    I doubt they heavily modify their components
     
  10. jrswizzle macrumors 603

    jrswizzle

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    #10
    I wonder if these other companies pay licensing fees to Qualcomm et al to use their off-the-shelf designs. Samsung is included because they design their own chip (the Exynos).

    Apple also designs their own chips, but they may pay their own licensing fee while Samsung doesn't.

    The others aren't included because they pass their fees through Qualcomm - who isn't paying a fee because they think they are using their own tech.

    So different issues here: Qualcomm infringing on a patent and being sued. Samsung being sued for utilizing NVIDIA tech in their own designs without paying licensing.

    Does that make sense? I'm talking out of my butt here.....I really don't know how all this works :p
     
  11. sc4rf4c3 macrumors regular

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    #11
    But the Exynos is ARM-based, so Samsung is paying its license fee to ARM.
     
  12. jrswizzle macrumors 603

    jrswizzle

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    #12
    Hmm - well then I'm not sure.

    Perhaps something that Samsung is doing with the Exynos, outside of the ARM instruction set, is infringement on an NVIDIA patent?
     
  13. Dontazemebro macrumors 68020

    Dontazemebro

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    #13
    I think my head is about explode

    One thing I can agree with, I have no idea how all this works either.
     
  14. 840quadra Moderator

    840quadra

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    #14
    I guess it is a good thing that I am in the market for a Shield tablet.
     
  15. cjmillsnun macrumors 68020

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    #15
    Why?

    ARM don't make a single product.

    It's up to those who use and fab the chips to pay the licence fees.

    ----------

    Bingo. That is obviously what NVIDIA think.

    ARM is the CPU technology, the other parts of the SOC are possibly patented by other firms.
     
  16. Switchback666 macrumors 68000

    Switchback666

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  17. apolloa macrumors G3

    apolloa

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    #17
    Yeap, the only thing Nvidia are doing is an Apple, basically because they are incapable of beating their competitors, they attempt to sue them and have their products removed from sale in a chosen market place, usually America as the rest of the world most likely would never do that, and thus they get increased sales and market share.
    It's all corporate business power games but the fans lap it up in their droves..
     
  18. kdarling macrumors demi-god

    kdarling

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    #18
    At your service.

    First off, everyone should remember that "infringe" does not mean "steal". It quite often simply means using the same ideas that someone else managed to get a patent on.

    It happens to every major company. For example, Apple is constantly being sued for infringing patents. It doesn't mean they stole them.

    As for the ITC, their only enforcement power is import bans. That's why lawyers like to use them, for leverage. They once banned iPhones and iPads over a Samsung patent, and it took the White House to lift it.

    --

    From the NVidia complaint to the ITC:

    nvidia_samsung.png

    Basically, NVidia claims patents on the idea of the GPU itself, programmable shading, and multi-threaded parallel GPU processing.

    They therefore want a ban on Samsung devices that include any of these GPU designs:
    • Qualcomm's Adreno,
    • ARM Norway's Mali, or
    • Imagination Technology's PowerVR.

    Since Samsung has either bought Qualcomm chips, or used GPUs they licensed from ARM and Imagination Technology, they refused to also pay NVidia a license fee on top of those other licenses, and suggested that NVidia should be getting fees from those GPU sellers, not their customers.

    --

    Btw, does Samsung even sell devices with Exynos processors in the US? I thought those were used overseas, and only Qualcomm was used in the US. Anyone know? Thanks!
     
  19. TechGod macrumors 68040

    TechGod

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    #19
    Exynos is not used in the US.

    OK thanks for the explanation, but then Apple also uses Power VR, why isn't NVidea going after them?
     
  20. kdarling macrumors demi-god

    kdarling

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    #20
    Thank you. Weird, then, to ask for a ban on items not even imported. Or maybe they are in some grey market.

    Apologies, I'm on an iPad mini. From Reuters:

    "They're using our technology for free in their devices today and they're shipping an enormous number of devices," Nvidia Chief Executive Jen-Hsun Huang said on a conference call.

    Qualcomm did not say it is suing Imagination or ARM but it did say it is asking the U.S. International Trade Commission to prevent shipments of Samsung devices containing ARM's Mali or Imagination's PowerVR graphics architectures, as well as Qualcomm's graphics technology.

    Graphics technology from Imagination is also used in Apple Inc's iPhones. Asked whether Nvidia plans to sue Apple since it uses Imagination's technology, Huang declined to comment.

    "Today we're focused on Samsung and Qualcomm, and we continue to have productive conversations with a lot of other companies out there," he said.
     
  21. Switchback666 macrumors 68000

    Switchback666

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    #21

    Glad whe have this man around!

    Interesting that they declined to comment about other company's, maybe they already agree on terms.
     
  22. TechGod macrumors 68040

    TechGod

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    #22
    Very, very much thank you for the explanation. Very appreciated.
     
  23. adder7712 macrumors 68000

    adder7712

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    #23
    How are they stealing if Qualcomm's products are included in the suit? As far as I know, they have never developed their own GPUs and CPUs, they license them from Imagination and ARM for their Exynos chips.
     
  24. identity macrumors 6502

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    #24
    They're too ***** to go after Apple because they know they'll lose. Samsungs a foreign company so it's much easier.
     
  25. kdarling macrumors demi-god

    kdarling

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    #25
    This. It also wouldn't be surprising if Apple's lawyers had some kind of license or do-not-sue clause in their Nvidia contracts. (Btw, wasn't it an Nvidia GPU that was bad in the Mac Pro a few years back?)

    It's a classic move. If they get an ITC ban, then that's leverage against a lot of their competitors, and a win for their Nvidia patent customers like Intel.

    (Their ITC complaint specifically suggests that Samsung could replace Qualcomm chips with Nvidia or Intel chips and not lose any sales.

    "... the (ban) would not offend the public interest because Samsung would be free to source the relevant components from NVIDIA and/or Intel to deliver non-infringing products to consumers.")

    --

    What they would really love, is for someone big to cave in ahead of time. Like say, HTC, who also uses Qualcomm CPUs. Then they can claim that other Qualcomm chip users are licensing Nvidia's GPU IP.

    They could also do something like secretly offer Apple a license for pennies a unit, just to get Apple publicly onboard, in hopes that this would help get Samsung's devices banned.
     

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