NVIDIA trying to ban the, S4, S5, Note 3 and 4, Edge, and some tablets from US Sales

lavrishevo

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Jan 9, 2007
1,845
189
NJ
So typical of Samsung. Can't seem to do things without stealing from others. First Apple now NVIDIA is after them.


NVIDIA on Monday announced that the U.S. International Trade Commission (ITC) has voted to investigate whether certain Samsung devices, targeted in a recent NVIDIA suit against the South Korean giant and Qualcomm, should be banned from sales in the U.S. or not.

NVIDIA alleges that Samsung’s own Exynos processors, and various Qualcomm CPUs including the Snapdragon S4, 400, 600, 800, 801 and 805, are in violation of certain GPU patents.

Thus, NVIDIA is asking the ITC to ban several Samsung devices, including the recently launched Galaxy Note Edge, Galaxy Note 4, but also the older Galaxy S5, Galaxy Note 3, Galaxy S4, Galaxy Tab S, Galaxy Note Pro and Galaxy Tab 2.

“We are pleased with the ITC decision today to open an investigation and look forward to presenting our case on how NVIDIA GPU patents are being used without a license,” executive vice president and chief administrative officer at Nvidia David Shannon said.

This isn’t the first time the ITC has investigated Samsung in patent-related claims, with the company having already received a sales ban from the Commission in the U.S. in Apple-related ITC proceedings in early August last year.

However, Apple won a ban on older Samsung devices, whereas NVIDIA is targeted many 2014 and 2013 Samsung smartphones and tablets. In fact, Samsung has not even started selling the Galaxy Note Edge and the Galaxy Note 4 in the U.S., with the latter phablet version expected to hit stores on October 17th in North America.
http://news.yahoo.com/galaxy-note-4-other-samsung-android-devices-facing-234540542.html
 
Last edited:

kenypowa

macrumors 6502a
Oct 16, 2008
695
20
somewhere
Other than NVIDIA SoC, Samsung Exynos and Qualcomm Snapdragon S4, 400, 600, 800, 801 and 805 probably powered 90% of all Android devices. So it's not just Samsung. NVIDIA is suing its two biggest rivals.
 

Switchback666

macrumors 68000
Nov 16, 2012
1,600
67
SXM
Other than NVIDIA SoC, Samsung Exynos and Qualcomm Snapdragon S4, 400, 600, 800, 801 and 805 probably powered 90% of all Android devices. So it's not just Samsung. NVIDIA is suing its two biggest rivals.

Exactly, something the op failed to comment.
 

jrswizzle

macrumors 603
Aug 23, 2012
6,107
128
McKinney, TX
My question is why just Samsung? Isn't every OEM in the market using the same GPUs?

Doesn't Apple use Imagination's Power VR?
I don't know about others, but doesn't Apple heavily modify their CPUs and GPUs - essentially designing them?

Could it be a licensing thing - Samsung has shown a penchant for not wanting to pay licensing fees. These other companies may all have their licensing deals in place.
 

lavrishevo

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Jan 9, 2007
1,845
189
NJ
The other companies and paying for the rights to use the technology.
 

Dontazemebro

macrumors 68020
Jul 23, 2010
2,173
0
I dunno, somewhere in West Texas
The other companies and paying for the rights to use the technology.
But it's not really the companies but more so the component manufacturers. And if they were paying for the technology, why are they being mentioned in the ban?

I don't know about others, but doesn't Apple heavily modify their CPUs and GPUs - essentially designing them?

Could it be a licensing thing - Samsung has shown a penchant for not wanting to pay licensing fees. These other companies may all have their licensing deals in place.
Maybe that's possibly it. Even still would that exclude HTC, LG, Sony and the rest?

I doubt they heavily modify their components
 

jrswizzle

macrumors 603
Aug 23, 2012
6,107
128
McKinney, TX
But it's not really the companies but more so the component manufacturers. And if they were paying for the technology, why are they being mentioned in the ban?



Maybe that's possibly it. Even still would that exclude HTC, LG, Sony and the rest?

I doubt they heavily modify their components
I wonder if these other companies pay licensing fees to Qualcomm et al to use their off-the-shelf designs. Samsung is included because they design their own chip (the Exynos).

Apple also designs their own chips, but they may pay their own licensing fee while Samsung doesn't.

The others aren't included because they pass their fees through Qualcomm - who isn't paying a fee because they think they are using their own tech.

So different issues here: Qualcomm infringing on a patent and being sued. Samsung being sued for utilizing NVIDIA tech in their own designs without paying licensing.

Does that make sense? I'm talking out of my butt here.....I really don't know how all this works :p
 

sc4rf4c3

macrumors regular
Oct 10, 2012
190
41
I wonder if these other companies pay licensing fees to Qualcomm et al to use their off-the-shelf designs. Samsung is included because they design their own chip (the Exynos).
But the Exynos is ARM-based, so Samsung is paying its license fee to ARM.
 

Dontazemebro

macrumors 68020
Jul 23, 2010
2,173
0
I dunno, somewhere in West Texas
I wonder if these other companies pay licensing fees to Qualcomm et al to use their off-the-shelf designs. Samsung is included because they design their own chip (the Exynos).

Apple also designs their own chips, but they may pay their own licensing fee while Samsung doesn't.

The others aren't included because they pass their fees through Qualcomm - who isn't paying a fee because they think they are using their own tech.

So different issues here: Qualcomm infringing on a patent and being sued. Samsung being sued for utilizing NVIDIA tech in their own designs without paying licensing.

Does that make sense? I'm talking out of my butt here.....I really don't know how all this works :p
I think my head is about explode

One thing I can agree with, I have no idea how all this works either.
 

cjmillsnun

macrumors 68020
Aug 28, 2009
2,399
46
They should sue ARM.
Why?

ARM don't make a single product.

It's up to those who use and fab the chips to pay the licence fees.

----------

Hmm - well then I'm not sure.

Perhaps something that Samsung is doing with the Exynos, outside of the ARM instruction set, is infringement on an NVIDIA patent?
Bingo. That is obviously what NVIDIA think.

ARM is the CPU technology, the other parts of the SOC are possibly patented by other firms.
 

apolloa

Suspended
Oct 21, 2008
12,318
7,798
Time, because it rules EVERYTHING!
Other than NVIDIA SoC, Samsung Exynos and Qualcomm Snapdragon S4, 400, 600, 800, 801 and 805 probably powered 90% of all Android devices. So it's not just Samsung. NVIDIA is suing its two biggest rivals.
Yeap, the only thing Nvidia are doing is an Apple, basically because they are incapable of beating their competitors, they attempt to sue them and have their products removed from sale in a chosen market place, usually America as the rest of the world most likely would never do that, and thus they get increased sales and market share.
It's all corporate business power games but the fans lap it up in their droves..
 

kdarling

macrumors P6
Someone call kdarling so he can explain this :D
At your service.

First off, everyone should remember that "infringe" does not mean "steal". It quite often simply means using the same ideas that someone else managed to get a patent on.

It happens to every major company. For example, Apple is constantly being sued for infringing patents. It doesn't mean they stole them.

As for the ITC, their only enforcement power is import bans. That's why lawyers like to use them, for leverage. They once banned iPhones and iPads over a Samsung patent, and it took the White House to lift it.

--

From the NVidia complaint to the ITC:

nvidia_samsung.png

Basically, NVidia claims patents on the idea of the GPU itself, programmable shading, and multi-threaded parallel GPU processing.

They therefore want a ban on Samsung devices that include any of these GPU designs:
  • Qualcomm's Adreno,
  • ARM Norway's Mali, or
  • Imagination Technology's PowerVR.

Since Samsung has either bought Qualcomm chips, or used GPUs they licensed from ARM and Imagination Technology, they refused to also pay NVidia a license fee on top of those other licenses, and suggested that NVidia should be getting fees from those GPU sellers, not their customers.

--

Btw, does Samsung even sell devices with Exynos processors in the US? I thought those were used overseas, and only Qualcomm was used in the US. Anyone know? Thanks!
 

TechGod

macrumors 68040
Feb 25, 2014
3,177
914
New Zealand
At your service.

First off, everyone should remember that "infringe" does not mean "steal". It quite often simply means using the same ideas that someone else managed to get a patent on.

It happens to every major company. For example, Apple is constantly being sued for infringing patents. It doesn't mean they stole them.

As for the ITC, their only enforcement power is import bans. That's why lawyers like to use them, for leverage. They once banned iPhones and iPads over a Samsung patent, and it took the White House to lift it.

--

From the NVidia complaint to the ITC:

View attachment 502506

Basically, NVidia claims patents on the idea of the GPU itself, programmable shading, and multi-threaded parallel GPU processing.

They therefore want a ban on Samsung devices that include any of these GPU designs:
  • Qualcomm's Adreno,
  • ARM Norway's Mali, or
  • Imagination Technology's PowerVR.

Since Samsung has either bought Qualcomm chips, or used GPUs they licensed from ARM and Imagination Technology, they refused to also pay NVidia a license fee on top of those other licenses, and suggested that NVidia should be getting fees from those GPU sellers, not their customers.

--

Btw, does Samsung even sell devices with Exynos processors in the US? I thought those were used overseas, and only Qualcomm was used in the US. Anyone know? Thanks!
Exynos is not used in the US.

OK thanks for the explanation, but then Apple also uses Power VR, why isn't NVidea going after them?
 

kdarling

macrumors P6
Exynos is not used in the US.
Thank you. Weird, then, to ask for a ban on items not even imported. Or maybe they are in some grey market.

OK thanks for the explanation, but then Apple also uses Power VR, why isn't NVidea going after them?
Apologies, I'm on an iPad mini. From Reuters:

"They're using our technology for free in their devices today and they're shipping an enormous number of devices," Nvidia Chief Executive Jen-Hsun Huang said on a conference call.

Qualcomm did not say it is suing Imagination or ARM but it did say it is asking the U.S. International Trade Commission to prevent shipments of Samsung devices containing ARM's Mali or Imagination's PowerVR graphics architectures, as well as Qualcomm's graphics technology.

Graphics technology from Imagination is also used in Apple Inc's iPhones. Asked whether Nvidia plans to sue Apple since it uses Imagination's technology, Huang declined to comment.

"Today we're focused on Samsung and Qualcomm, and we continue to have productive conversations with a lot of other companies out there," he said.
 

Switchback666

macrumors 68000
Nov 16, 2012
1,600
67
SXM
At your service.

First off, everyone should remember that "infringe" does not mean "steal". It quite often simply means using the same ideas that someone else managed to get a patent on.

It happens to every major company. For example, Apple is constantly being sued for infringing patents. It doesn't mean they stole them.

As for the ITC, their only enforcement power is import bans. That's why lawyers like to use them, for leverage. They once banned iPhones and iPads over a Samsung patent, and it took the White House to lift it.

--

From the NVidia complaint to the ITC:

View attachment 502506

Basically, NVidia claims patents on the idea of the GPU itself, programmable shading, and multi-threaded parallel GPU processing.

They therefore want a ban on Samsung devices that include any of these GPU designs:
  • Qualcomm's Adreno,
  • ARM Norway's Mali, or
  • Imagination Technology's PowerVR.

Since Samsung has either bought Qualcomm chips, or used GPUs they licensed from ARM and Imagination Technology, they refused to also pay NVidia a license fee on top of those other licenses, and suggested that NVidia should be getting fees from those GPU sellers, not their customers.

--

Btw, does Samsung even sell devices with Exynos processors in the US? I thought those were used overseas, and only Qualcomm was used in the US. Anyone know? Thanks!

Glad whe have this man around!

Interesting that they declined to comment about other company's, maybe they already agree on terms.
 

TechGod

macrumors 68040
Feb 25, 2014
3,177
914
New Zealand
Thank you. Weird, then, to ask for a ban on items not even imported. Or maybe they are in some grey market.



Apologies, I'm on an iPad mini. From Reuters:

"They're using our technology for free in their devices today and they're shipping an enormous number of devices," Nvidia Chief Executive Jen-Hsun Huang said on a conference call.

Qualcomm did not say it is suing Imagination or ARM but it did say it is asking the U.S. International Trade Commission to prevent shipments of Samsung devices containing ARM's Mali or Imagination's PowerVR graphics architectures, as well as Qualcomm's graphics technology.

Graphics technology from Imagination is also used in Apple Inc's iPhones. Asked whether Nvidia plans to sue Apple since it uses Imagination's technology, Huang declined to comment.

"Today we're focused on Samsung and Qualcomm, and we continue to have productive conversations with a lot of other companies out there," he said.
Very, very much thank you for the explanation. Very appreciated.
 

adder7712

macrumors 68000
Mar 9, 2009
1,923
0
Canada
How are they stealing if Qualcomm's products are included in the suit? As far as I know, they have never developed their own GPUs and CPUs, they license them from Imagination and ARM for their Exynos chips.
 

identity

macrumors 6502
Nov 18, 2011
316
0
Exynos is not used in the US.

OK thanks for the explanation, but then Apple also uses Power VR, why isn't NVidea going after them?
They're too ***** to go after Apple because they know they'll lose. Samsungs a foreign company so it's much easier.
 

kdarling

macrumors P6
They're too ***** to go after Apple because they know they'll lose. Samsungs a foreign company so it's much easier.
This. It also wouldn't be surprising if Apple's lawyers had some kind of license or do-not-sue clause in their Nvidia contracts. (Btw, wasn't it an Nvidia GPU that was bad in the Mac Pro a few years back?)

Interesting that they declined to comment about other company's, maybe they already agree on terms.
It's a classic move. If they get an ITC ban, then that's leverage against a lot of their competitors, and a win for their Nvidia patent customers like Intel.

(Their ITC complaint specifically suggests that Samsung could replace Qualcomm chips with Nvidia or Intel chips and not lose any sales.

"... the (ban) would not offend the public interest because Samsung would be free to source the relevant components from NVIDIA and/or Intel to deliver non-infringing products to consumers.")

--

What they would really love, is for someone big to cave in ahead of time. Like say, HTC, who also uses Qualcomm CPUs. Then they can claim that other Qualcomm chip users are licensing Nvidia's GPU IP.

They could also do something like secretly offer Apple a license for pennies a unit, just to get Apple publicly onboard, in hopes that this would help get Samsung's devices banned.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.