NYT writes the proper honorific for Dr. Ben Carson 3 times less often than Dr. Jill Biden

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by sualpine, Nov 3, 2015.

  1. sualpine macrumors 6502

    sualpine

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    #1
    http://thefederalist.com/2015/10/28/the-new-york-times-ben-carson-double-standard/

    THIS is why conservatives hate the liberal media.
     
  2. Mac'nCheese macrumors 68030

    Mac'nCheese

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    #2
  3. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #3
    One would think that there are more pressing issues to deal with in this country both individually and as a whole than blasting the media on the {mis,non}use of dignitary names when being mentioned.

    Unfortunately, such pettiness has proved me wrong. Nevertheless, I wait with baited breath for when the media writes the proper honorific for Ben Franklin.

    BL.
     
  4. localoid macrumors 68020

    localoid

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    #4
    This kinda thing just makes you want to go to the window, open it up, and stick your head out and yell, "I'm as mad as hell... and I'm not going to take this anymore!"
     
  5. sualpine thread starter macrumors 6502

    sualpine

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    #5
    What you call petty, I call lack of respect.
     
  6. Mac'nCheese macrumors 68030

    Mac'nCheese

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    #6
    Is it a lack of respect when Fox News does the same thing to the president?
     
  7. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #7
    Respect is earned, not bestowed. And I admit, Carson has earned his title.

    Nevertheless, You miss the point that it is petty to argue honorifics when there are bigger issues to deal with in this country. Honorifics compared to that, is superficial.

    BL.
     
  8. Sydde, Nov 3, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2015

    Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    #8
    Perhaps Dr. Oz has so devalued the honorific that it might be mildly insulting to Carson?


    On the other hand, Dr. Carson has made similar use of his title for personal gain, a situation even the National Review finds troubling.
     
  9. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #9
    I've never heard of the Federalist, so I don't know whether to trust their analysis. However, there's two bits that I think is worth juxtaposing:

    So, let's see, either some Times editors (and reporters) get confused about the rules regarding honorifics—especially confusing since Carson should no longer still get it—or they're engaged in biased reporting?

    What the author calls the "simple" explanation is an attack on the professionalism of the people who work at the NY Times. And, the best way to evaluate this is not with a "thumbnail" search, but with analysis on how the Times uses Dr. throughout. (I would guess that science and medical reporters are stronger at this than the people running the politics desk, which would account for it just as easily.)

    Now, I don't have this problem since I use AP Style, but I can see how easily honorifics could cause unintended problems without an actual bias.

    And, as others have mentioned, why not do the same analysis for Fox News? Does Fox regularly ignore the honorifics for the president or members of Congress when they're Democrats?
     
  10. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #10
  11. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #11
    The AP Style Manual guidance on the use of Honorifics suggests referring to a medical Doctor by that title only when citing him or her in relation to their medical practice or expertise. Doctor Carson may be cited for his expertise on neurological conditions and treatments. Dr. Carson has retired from medical practice. Plain Mr. or Ben Carson would be cited for his opinions on the Cowboys playoff prospects. Both Michelle and Barack Obama earned the academic title JD (Juris Doctor) - and are theoretically entitled to that honorific. But, like virtually all lawyers, would laugh at the idea of being referred to as Doctor.

    As a working academic (believed to be the first spouse of a sitting Vice President to have kept working while her husband was in office) Dr Jill Biden is entitled to the same honorific applied to any such person: Professor, etc.
     
  12. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #12
    Should follow the style guides for everyone as best as possible.
     
  13. dec. Suspended

    dec.

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    #13
    Well the comments section certainly is in bad need of a good Dr. - what a bunch of completely delusional freaks...
     
  14. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #14
    Just a professional aside, this issue comes up when dealing with professors at the university. Our rule is that nobody is called, "Doctor John Doe" unless they are a medical doctor. Otherwise, it's John Doe, Ph.D.

    So according to our guidelines, Jill Biden would never be referred to "doctor".
     
  15. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #15
    Ben Carson is not currently in the public eye as a doctor. He is a presidential candidate, as scary as that may be.
     
  16. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #16


    Maybe so.

    But a newspaper has different style guides than a University. And whichever way you look at it - its an irrelevancy.

    Keep looking at the birdie while the RTepublicans rob you blind, saps!
     
  17. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #17
    And interestingly enough, it was GWB's insistence to refer to Condi Rice as "Doctor".. have to wonder...

    BL.
     
  18. maxsix Suspended

    maxsix

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    #18
    This is a _very_ weak argument.

    I watch CNN, Fox and MSNBC, for the same amount of time per channel, and with the same focused attention as I'm a politico that is very involved indirectly (I.E. I've never run for office) I happen to like to stay up to date on both sides, how they're covered, what their strategies are etc.

    I've heard this person who some call the president, be referred to by Mr instead of his official title on many occasions across all channels. I truly believe that it's because he usually fails to act like a president.

    He hates the USA and has proven it over and over and over, yet the libs will deny it. His behavior, refusal to go to certain events with a rich history of Presidential Attendance, oh my it just goes on and on....
     
  19. CalWizrd Suspended

    CalWizrd

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    #19
    It's certainly got me pretty nervous.

    If the Republicans somehow ultimately decide that he is the nominee of the party, I would be forced to hold my nose, keep the vomit down my throat, and vote for the devil woman.

    And I sorely don't ever want to be forced to do that. Ever.
     
  20. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #20
    Surprised you got all of the professors to sign off on that. The level of arrogance in academia has always been rather impressive, must have been a real blow to their ego.
     
  21. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #21
    And yet you had the same bloody thing happen with GWB, as he was referred to as "Mr. Bush". Good for the goose/good for the gander, no?

    And it sounds to me like you still have some butthurt from the past two POTUS elections. get over it.

    Source for this, please.

    BL.
     
  22. jerwin macrumors 65816

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    #22
    The New York Times uses the following standard:

    Screen Shot.png

    Now, technically, Carson is retired, and Biden still works in the classroom... so.
     
  23. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #23
    I don't think you'll be alone.
     
  24. FieldingMellish Suspended

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    #24
    The only people I see who demand the Dr. honorific are chiropractors
     
  25. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #25
    Doctor Ben Carson reminds me of a joke I heard once:

    "Whenever I hear my doctor discussing politics, I wonder how he manages not to kill anybody."
     

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