Obama Administration imposes 522% duty on Chinese steel.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by vrDrew, May 18, 2016.

  1. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #1
    The Commerce Department has imposed penalties of up to 522% on Chinese cold-rolled flat steel.

    The reality is that the US Government does have legitimate tools at its disposal to combat unfair competition from foreign countries.
     
  2. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #2
    we can't even buy steel here for what the Chinese sell FINISHED & DELIVERED products.
    our cost to build a radiator = $80
    from China? $16 DELIVERED with the same warranty & specs.
    toolboxes? same thing.
     
  3. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #3
    Let's see... Economic bubble? Check. Economic crash? Check. Political rise of unstable narcissistic populists? Check. Rise of nationalism? Check. Regional tensions in Europe and Asia? Check. Now trade war. Check. Anybody else see the parallels between now and the period just prior to WWII?
     
  4. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #4
    You think the US government should subsidize our entire work force like China does, so we can cut wages across the board in order to compete with them on price?
    --- Post Merged, May 18, 2016 ---
    It's more like the lead-in to the Great Depression, but there are some parallels there, yeah.
     
  5. steve knight Suspended

    steve knight

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    #5
    is this not more of a greed issue us companies chose to choose greed over buying American and here we are.
     
  6. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    One of the greatest strengths of capitalism is that it's able to lower prices and boost innovation through pure competitiveness. But when we're competing against a quasi-communist nation that can initialize its workforce for pennies to our dollar, then that quest for lower prices becomes something of a race to the bottom.
     
  7. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #7
    try reading it in Spanish, that is not what I said or implied darling. I merely pointed out just how stacked the deck is , plenty of MFG CO's are long gone and not coming back. can we recover? hard to say, I think TPP is going to finish out what NAFTA started, I am [​IMG] if my CO closes as there is little to no work for me outside this industry, I could try porn again but I don't think there are cameras that add 10 lbs where I want them added
    [​IMG]
    --- Post Merged, May 18, 2016 ---
    your apple products are made in China, so are most PC's.
    --- Post Merged, May 18, 2016 ---
    their MIG welder was at 60 CENTS per hour, ours? $30 + benefits.
     
  8. vrDrew thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #8


    I would point out that China is not party to either NAFTA nor TPP.

    Its only via our participation in the World Trade Organization that these new penalties on China have any real teeth. I would note also that Britain and other European countries are expected to follow suit: their steel industries too have been badly hurt by "zombie" Chinese steel companies dumping.

    Punitive tariffs are a weapon. But like any weapon that have to be used carefully to avoid a trade war that would really end up being damaging to everyone.

    TPP has specific, and much tougher, rules to prevent dumping such as the Chinese are doing. TPP also has labor and environmental rules to make sure our foreign competitors don't use slave labor or pollute the environment to undercut us.

    I don't mean to be overly rosy: But the reality is that the labor market for skilled metal workers, welders, etc. is not bad right now. And it is expected to grow in coming years. The jobs might not necessarily be mass-producing consumer-type items; but there is still a lot of specialty and custom metalworking that pretty much has to be done on site.
     
  9. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #9
    but my feelings said it was, :p, I sit corrected.
    agreed on the trade war, it's not going to be easy.
    dude, CNC programmers/designers have applied as machine operators in my CO because they can't find work, it is nasty here in CA.
     
  10. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #10
    The only words in Spanish I know are ******, *****, ******, ******, fuego, and baño

    Now some people here might see China's setup as being more beneficial as a whole. Chinese companies save a considerably larger amount of money on labor, which allows them to strengthen themselves, and offer lower priced goods.

    But these people also seem to think that money just disappears when it leaves your hand. See, the US MIG welder can afford the product he's making. The Chinese welder probably can't. This means that the Chinese economy, especially on the lower end, undercuts their own profit margin by marketing to a much smaller group of people domestically, relying primarily on overseas business to support their growth. To save some money, they've actually had to sacrifice some domestic self reliance.

    This is why higher wages across the board are a good thing. There is one very basic truism of modern Capitalism that has to be kept in mind at all times when arguing about living wages and fair pay: people with money spend money. In other words, the more people that have more money equates to a larger amount of people potentially buying your products, boosting your profits, and assuring growth in the long term.
     
  11. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    dude, we bought the radiator for $16 shipped & delivered and still sold it for $160 to consumers. when WE lay off workers who make decent wages because someone is doing it for less, are WE still going to be able to afford things? it's going to be a nasty spiral down the tubes my friend.
     
  12. vrDrew thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #12
    Well that would suggest that the job market for machine operators was at least better than that for CNC programmers.

    Job losses and disruption is always tough. In any industry. But times; technologies; and economic force change. We can't stop that.

    What we can do is invest in things like education; and infrastructure; research; and providing a decent social safety net. So that laid off workers can learn new skills; have a financial cushion to tide them over till they find a new job. And that businesses and entrepreneurs have the roads and ports; as well as the trained labor force they need to create new products, service and jobs to replace the ones that got lost.

    Losing jobs to cheaper imports is tough. I agree and understand completely. But its not all bad. The people buying those cheaper Chinese-made radiators have got an extra $60 or so they can spend on something else in the US economy.

    The trick is to find some way of making that happen as efficiently as possible.
     
  13. thewap macrumors demi-god

    thewap

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    #13
    TPP has trade rules that nullifies our constitution, giving authority to a secret panel of international corporatists and bankers over our trade, commerce, and environmental laws.

    TPP is not about trade, it is about global control of the USA.
     
  14. Renzatic Suspended

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    #14
    The usual response to that is we don't need our lower end of the economy. That the wealthy can trade among the wealthy, and still thrive.

    The end result of this would be codifying a system of haves and have-nots. The problem with this is that have-nots usually tend to be a pretty unruly bunch, especially if they're stuck in their position, with no way to climb up to become one of the haves en masse. Over time, this group of Haves will become smaller, more concentrated, leaving more and more people out to fend for themselves with the meager resources they have available to them.

    The end result of this is usually rioting in the streets, and heads on stakes. The problem with this is that riots and social control are expensive to implement, even more expensive to maintain, and almost always brutal in its methods.

    A system where we solely pander to the rich is an overly expensive one. More expensive than a bunch of people complaining about a $7 an hour raise on the low end.
     
  15. thermodynamic Suspended

    thermodynamic

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    #15
    Is it the same steel we sold 'em 14 years ago to make little model tower collectible toys with?

    http://edition.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/east/01/23/china.wtcsteel/

    Seemed a waste of fuel to haul everything that far away when we still have steel industries here, but our economy is all about the sticker cost only, as if no hidden markets or hidden costs exist...?
    --- Post Merged, May 18, 2016 ---
    And all the other countries involved? China was not part of the TPP... still, WWASD?
    --- Post Merged, May 18, 2016 ---
    Capitalism also makes a number of unrealistic assumptions. Or the customers do.
     
  16. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    no, because we were not hiring operators either, plenty of shops closed some forever , others managed to move out of state to friendlier states, MFG is dying overall in the U.S. at least where sheet metal is concerned.

    as said, the radiator was sold at the same price as it previously was.
     
  17. thermodynamic Suspended

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    #17
    Assuming that happens.
     
  18. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    That's the nature of any socioeconomic beast. Capitalism isn't an exception.
     
  19. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #19
    Too little, too late. Empty gestures will not quench the revolutionary fire. This is what they hath wrought:
    [​IMG]

    The corporatist elites sold our birthright long ago. There will be an accounting--we will have our revenge.
     
  20. jnpy!$4g3cwk macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    #20
    I think this is where we need the new button. I don't like, but, I get it.
     
  21. thewap, May 21, 2016
    Last edited: May 21, 2016

    thewap macrumors demi-god

    thewap

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    #21
    To be ruled by unelected corporate bureaucrats destroying our constitution I guess is a liberal's wet dream..

    There is noise that China will also be interested in the "free for all" Obama Bush Globalist plan to destroy the sovereignty of the USA. What is more "progressive" than destroying the original progressives - our forefathers, and their revolutionary US version of the magna carta - the constitution....(how dare the little people rebel against the imperial class elites).

    Throw in open borders, then inflict wars in the middle east destabilizing them while professing "democracy against tyrants" while we kill 100's of thousands, then let in all the illegal immigrants and refugees in the USA, while professing cultural diversity with Islam which is anti cultural diversity to it's core, wreck our economy to drive down wages to illegal immigrant levels while professing jobs for all, use gun control to disarm the USA while professing "it is for peace" while the police state grows and surveillance blossoms and minorities get shot down, give all power top BLM and EPA for corporatists to rape our natural resources for "the world" while professing to save turtles, = PROFIT ! One world bureaucrat authoritarian Order over the world's slaves, who needs countries and constitutions?.

    "The new American Century" the perfect elitist scenario where the lowly masses revere the Hollywood elites and govt war mongers to throw them the crumbs they deserve..after all, they have been given sexual , non racist, and gender freedom now , and thats the only thing that counts in the millenial mindset.

    Screen Shot 2016-05-21 at 17.12.34.png
    Screen Shot 2016-05-21 at 17.12.41.png
     
  22. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #22
    Who exactly are these "Hollywood elites" we hear so much about? Anyone we know?
     
  23. samiwas macrumors 65816

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    #23
    Wait...the liberals are the ones who worship corporations and their ability to weasel out of anything?
     
  24. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #24
    Film moguls like Hatzenberg, Ratzenberg, Katzenberg, and Spielberg.
     
  25. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #25
    George Clooney.
     

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