Obama backs NYC Muslim Community Center

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by miloblithe, Aug 13, 2010.

  1. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

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    #1
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_ground_zero_mosque_obama

    Good for Obama. Meanwhile, Palin and Gingrich continue to make asses of themselves by opposing this.
     
  2. OutThere macrumors 603

    OutThere

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    #3
    I wager that a good portion of the people vehemently against this project still think Obama is a Muslim himself.
     
  3. mgguy macrumors 6502

    mgguy

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    #4
    He's not? :D
     
  4. glocke12 macrumors 6502a

    glocke12

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    #5
    How so?

    I think it is very insensitive to build this, especially after the governor of New York offered the group state property...but I guess when it comes to being insensitive, it is ok to be insensitive, to white, christian Americans.

    This is "almost" as bad as the klan building a headquarters on the site of a church frequented by black church goers that was burned down.
     
  5. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #6
    No this is almost as bad as someone building a new church a couple of blocks down from where a "black" office building was destroyed by terrorists.
     
  6. jb1280 macrumors 6502a

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    #7
    And here we have it: the "White, Christian, American" meme.

    Do you really think that the 11 September 2001 terror attacks targeted "White, Christian America?" Were only White, Christian Americans killed on 11 September in New York? What about foreign citizens? Hispanics? African Americans? Asians? Jews? Muslims? Atheists?

    A byproduct of a pluralistic society that welcomes people that have different religious beliefs is that people are going to be offended by the actions of other people.

    We can argue about whether or not this is an insensitive act all that we want. What we can't argue about is whether or not they have the right to build the Cordoba Center there. The moment we start to argue about the latter, we are starting down a dangerous path. One side that is arguing that the United States is unique in the tradition that the country was created by English colonies where New England welcomed Puritans and Maryland welcomed Catholics and that the new country became a refuge for religious minorities of all faiths. The other side is arguing that the United States is only for White, Christian natives.
     
  7. glocke12 macrumors 6502a

    glocke12

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    #8

    I never said ANYTHING about white, christian americans being the only victims of 9/11. Admittedly I should have left the white/christian part out.

    The point(s) that so many seem to be missing is that building a mosque so close to the location where so many were killed by islamic extremists is insensitive to the victims and thier families of 9/11. There are without doubt many other locations where this could be built, but they insist on building it right there in spite of all of the opposition to this.

    Secondly, this is simply a case of people being insensitive to a majority of Americans that are not opposed to the building of a mosque, but are opposed to the building of a mosque so close to the 9/11 site.

    Finally, while I am not "really" reliqous (havent been to church in over 20 years), I think there is a very obvious double standard that comes into play when religion comes into any issue. It seems that anything involving Christianity is frowned upon, but when there is an issue involving a religion other than christianity, the PC police come out in full force....
     
  8. JediZenMaster Suspended

    JediZenMaster

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    #9
    Why is it that people think only "Whites" were effected by 9/11 as far as the issue? There were people of all races and religions who were effected by the WTC bombing. People forget that alot of Muslims were killed as well in the Building.

    I'm so sick and tired of the Muslim hate. I mean hell i'm native american and black and does this mean i should be pissed because when they have built buildings in NYC they have disturbed native american burial grounds and claimed they moved the "Remains" to a better place :rolleyes:
     
  9. glocke12 macrumors 6502a

    glocke12

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    #10
    Im assuming you are talking about muslim hate by americans. What about all the hate by Muslims towards americans???
     
  10. jb1280 macrumors 6502a

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    #11
    The only relevant question to be asked is whether or not they have the constitutional right to build their center in New York? everything else is metadata.

    It is becoming increasingly clear to me that the white, Christian base of the conservative movement is growing more and more anti-responsibility. The more inclusive a society is the more different groups have responsibilities to society and become stake-holders in its institutions. This trend permeates the gay marriage debate, the pathway to citizenship for aliens, and the Cordoba Center.

    With civil marriage comes responsibilities that are good for society. Married couples are generally healthier, more economically prosperous, and have a stake in building communities and neighborhoods. Why on earth would people who promote personal responsibility not want to co-opt as many people into traditional institutions?

    With citizenship comes responsibilities. Responsibilities to pay taxes, pledge allegiance, and generally be productive people. Of course people who arrive in the country illegally should pay for their lack of responsibility for entering illegal, but I think overall it's better to fine them and co-opt them into the United States rather than deport them - particularly if they are gainfully employed in some capacity and not committing offenses beyond their first offense.

    With allowing the Cordoba Center to go into New York, you are elevating the status of the Muslim community in that particular part of New York City and as a result, the center's leaders become community leaders. Honest question: Is it better to have an integrated Muslim community in the United States that has a vested interest in a pluralistic America, and as a result helps in exposing radicalized youth? Or is it better to marginalize the Muslim community in the United States, foment disdain towards a pluralistic society, and aid and assist radicalized youth?
     
  11. glocke12 macrumors 6502a

    glocke12

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    #12
    Just for the record, I could care less that the muslims want to build this...I just think that they should take into consideration the sensitivity of this issue and build it elsewhere. We here so much about how Americans need to be sensitive to others, but is should work both ways....
     
  12. freeny macrumors 68020

    freeny

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    #13
    The "white, Christian" segment of this country needs to get over it's sense of entitlement. IMHO, it's the main culprit that is tearing this country apart.
     
  13. JediZenMaster Suspended

    JediZenMaster

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    #14
    Yeah the hate that some Americans have towards muslims which by the way is the same hate that the Irish had towards the italians when they first moved to new york. And the same Hate that some american's have towards anything that is different and doesn't fit americas label of what's "normal".

    I get why some muslims hate americans because we treat them like garbage and some blame all muslims for 9/11 and That's just wrong. I'll use an example My mother and father were attacked because they were black back in the early 60's they had attack dogs unleashed on them and got Hosed with water from fire hoses.

    My parents don't blame every single white person for that they just blame the few who actually committed the act. So it's wrong to take the actions of a few and blame a whole group of people for it.Also it's not just some of the extremists who hate american's its actually civilized people who do.

    If you haven't noticed lately for the past few decades our country has a Tendency to involve it's self in others countries matters. You can't force democracy on people who don't want it. And our country has a high level of Excess and Lazyness. For god sakes it's taken us decades to elect a Black as president someone who mirrors the other half of the US population. And not to mention how the errors of these highly over paid CEO's have not only hurt the Economy in the US but has hurt the rest of the world as well.

    So yes if someone from another country came into my country and told me how to live and what to do and etc. I would be pretty pissed too. Especially when they can't really practice what they are preaching.
     
  14. rhett7660 macrumors G4

    rhett7660

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    #15
    Isn't that the truth....... Sadly it won't.
     
  15. jb1280 macrumors 6502a

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    #16
    So what? proximity to where the World Trade Center stands is completely arbitrary. Would it be better if the building was one block further away? I am certain that there is a sizable of Americans who think that a Mosque near Detroit is too close to where the World Trade Center stood. If you look at architectural renderings of the proposed building, there are no minarets, nothing that makes it stick out as something other than a multi-storied building in Manhattan.

    On your point of a double standard, I only have to mention that in a country where over 50% are protestant Christians with no major historical experience of persecuting protestant Christians, I don't think it's a double standard, it's just a reflection of reality. It's telling when the agenda of Protestant Christians is in trying to sanction prayer in public schools and the placing of tablets with the 10 commandments in court houses, and not having to fight in order to just get a church of YMCA built in a community.
     
  16. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #17
    What about muslim Americans? Especially as they are the ones who will use this community centre.
     
  17. jb1280 macrumors 6502a

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    #18
    It's not about being sensitive, it's about being tolerant. There are some places on earth that are fundamentally tolerant and places that are fundamentally intolerant. Despite some blemishes on the historical record, American leaders have fundamentally promoted tolerance over the long-stretch ideologically. The people who flew hijacked airplanes into the towers were promoting an ideology that is fundamentally intolerant.

    I see three basic groups of people on the issue of the Muslim Community Center. First are those that promote the thing and feel it is a wonderful addition to the community. Second there are those that tolerate the thing. They may hate it, find it insensitive, but say "this is america, ****** it and let them build it." Third, there are those who are intolerant.
     
  18. kernkraft macrumors 68020

    kernkraft

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    #19
    Putting aside issues with tolerance, equality, not blaming a religion and all of its followers for religious extremism (which, by the way exists in other religions too)... so putting these issues aside, would it be alright if the mosque had an Apple Store in it with all those christian computers and goodies?
     
  19. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #20
    [​IMG]

    The green arrow is the site of the Oklahoma City bombing, committed by Christian terrorists. All of the red dots are churches. I don't see anyone complaining about that.
     
  20. Compile 'em all macrumors 601

    Compile 'em all

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    #21
    Are you saying that all muslims are terrorists?

    Do you support racial profiling in airports because the terrorists happened to have black hair?
     
  21. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    #22
    Did Timothy McVeigh do his bombing because of his beliefs in Christianity? Were those churches already there or built after the bombing? This is a weak comparison.
     
  22. glocke12 macrumors 6502a

    glocke12

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    #23
    Im not saying anything remotely close to all muslims are terrorists.

    Racial profiling has nothing to do with this either....It is about building a highly controverisal building so close to the 9/11 site.

    They have a right to build where they want, but they dont HAVE to build at this spot. There are countless other location that this can be built at.

    I hear so much about tolerance and understanding on this forum, but it should be a two way street. Where is the understanding that for many, many Americans, this is viewed as an insult to the memory of the 9-11 victims.
     
  23. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #24
    I thought part of being an American was religious freedom. In which case anyone who doesn't want to allow this mosque to go ahead is unamerican.
     
  24. quagmire macrumors 603

    quagmire

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    #25
    But, muslims are our enemy. Didn't you get the memo? ;)
     

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