Obama now defends Bush wiretaps.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by MacNut, Apr 12, 2009.

  1. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #1
    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/04/06/MNRP16TJOQ.DTL

    http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/04/obama-doj-worse-than-bush

    And here is Olbermann's take
     
  2. rhett7660 macrumors G4

    rhett7660

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    #2
    I think it is kind of funny. I am wondering if there are items we the public are not hearing about and once the new President took office is hearing about them. In turn he is thinking ok, this makes sense or something along those lines.
     
  3. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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  4. chrmjenkins macrumors 603

    chrmjenkins

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    #4
    Actually, I'll say that if they want to keep their previous actions out of the courts in the interest in the national security, that's fine, but this practice needs to stop NOW. :mad:
     
  5. MacNut thread starter macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #5
    Is this more that Obama agrees with the Bush policy or that he doesn't want to uncover Bush's secrets. It is a huge about face from what he campaigned on.
     
  6. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #6
    I agree- this is terrible, and needs to stop.
     
  7. dsharits macrumors 68000

    dsharits

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    #7
    It just goes to show you how much things change once you're in a different position. It's easy to criticize things from the outside, but once the responsibility changes hands, it suddenly brings a whole new perspective. :rolleyes:
     
  8. MacNut thread starter macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #8
    It still doesn't mean that any president can be above the law.

    We know where the media stands on this issue. They would rather talk about the new puppy over pressing issues.
     
  9. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #9
    Damn right. Guys! Send e-mails ASAP.
     
  10. zap2 macrumors 604

    zap2

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    #10
    Maybe, but this is still crap...Obama should be shooting these things down...now.

    Hopefully its due to not wanting to get into a GOP vs Dem fight in DC now(stimulus wasn't big with the GOP), but I'm not holding my breath!
     
  11. KingYaba macrumors 68040

    KingYaba

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    #11
    I heard on the radio former President W. Bush will be writing a book about some of the decisions he made and why. Makes me wonder if Obama's 180 is related. I don't support this and I'll call and leave an angry message (yet again). E-mailing is o.k. but I have found phone calls and handwritten letters are better.
     
  12. MacNut thread starter macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #12
    If wiretaps are going to be statuesque what happens to the Patriot Act.
     
  13. SmartIndianKid macrumors regular

    SmartIndianKid

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    #13
    This is ridiculous. And exactly the type of thing many people voted for Obama to stop.
     
  14. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    #14
    I sent one to Senator Durbin's office just now.

    I do honestly still think the President is just getting snowed over with too many different things going on in too many different spheres right now, and so his staff is acting somewhat conservatively (in the sense of being wary of making changes while being too busy to guide them). However, even moreso than Guantanamo, this is a real and core violation of the principles which formed this country and the very spirit of our Constitution.
     
  15. MacNut thread starter macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #15
    I would buy the snowed in statement until this remark,

    "Sad as that is, it's the Department Of Justice's second argument that is the most pernicious. The DOJ claims that the U.S. Government is completely immune from litigation for illegal spying — that the Government can never be sued for surveillance that violates federal privacy statutes."

    "This is a radical assertion that is utterly unprecedented. No one — not the White House, not the Justice Department, not any member of Congress, and not the Bush Administration — has ever interpreted the law this way."
     
  16. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #16
    The assertion is entirely brain-dead and I continued to be surprised that the Obama administration is following this line of reasoning. If the US government cannot be sued for failing to follow the laws of the land, than what mechanisms exist to curtail excessive acts by the Executive Branch?

    I'd suggest that anyone who thinks this is a bad idea formulate a letter (on paper) and send it to their local Congress critters.
     
  17. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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    #17
    This is what happens with expanded powers. Those that follow are usually extremely reticent to give them up. It's why they needed to be fought tooth and nail at the beginning. Now it's going to be an ever harder battle. Best of luck.

    p.s. Glad there appears to be a wisening up to the "terrorism" reasoning though.
     
  18. heron88 macrumors 6502

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    #18
    I really dont understand what the big deal about them wiretapping is. Alot of people that are against it dont understand the way the wiretapping even works, and dont realize that their privacy isnt really compromised.

    I guess I can understand why people are upset though. Maybe other people feel differently, but it doesnt really bother me, but thats only my opinion.

    As far as Obama keeping his promises goes though, I saw an interesting video called the "Obama Deception" which I'm sure you guys have heard about. I am very hesitant to believe any conspiracy theories. I didnt believe most of what they say, as they have no sources, but it is kind of entertaining to hear their claims. In summary, they pretty much claim there is a group of elite billionaires that run everything, thats why presidents never keep most of their promises. Not that I believe it, but it does make my imagination wander, :D
     
  19. chrmjenkins macrumors 603

    chrmjenkins

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    #19
    It's an invasion of privacy, and a form of a search. Per the Constitution (Bill or Rights), a search has to be lawful. The correct procedure is to go to a judge with evidence, and he will approve the search/wiretap. By wiretapping without going through this process, they are committing an illegal search.

    It's an invasion of privacy because, on the phone, you have a legitimate expectation of privacy.
     
  20. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #20
    Like I've said many times before... Obama is just a smarter, better speech giving, version of Bush. On top of that he supports an even BIGGER government, with even HIGHER taxes, with even MORE control over our lives.

    "Big Brother" is just one example of this. They're making us more and more dependent on governmental services. The trillions and trillions that Obama is spending will be burdened upon your grandchildren who will essentially be born with thousands upon thousands of dollars in personal debt to the government. How sad.

    The majority of modern Republicans and Democrats are 90% the same. They're statists who desire more power and more control. The republicans say they don't support it, but when in power demonstrate quite the opposite.


    Such is why I am a supporter of the Ron Paul revolution! ;)
     
  21. MacNut thread starter macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #21
    And how do you know that Ron wont change course once in office. They all say what they need to get elected. After that all bets are off.

    I am more surprised well maybe I'm not, that the media isn't making this a bigger issue.
     
  22. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    #22
    I think .Andy's observation applies to this. The media, having shirked their role in defense of democracy and freedom during the post-9/11 era, are even slower to re-claim their role than the administration has been. They've taken quite the habit of becoming apologists for every kind of draconian policy in the name of domestic security.
     
  23. bobber205 macrumors 68020

    bobber205

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    #23
    I REALLY hate how obama is doing this crap...

    However, I still believe in obama as a person (call me naive w/e) but I wonder if there is an actual reason for doing this...

    Any reason isn't valid but still. I would love to know the "real" reason.
     
  24. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #24
    Ron Paul would be even worse. He doesn't believe in the right to privacy. I still don't know why anyone goes ga-ga over this lunatic. Reading his website is like reading a horror movie script.

    Obama is hardly the same as Bush. You can argue that all you want, it's simply not the case.
     
  25. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #25
    I wouldn't be surprised either... the media in general loves Obama. As for Ron changing opinions, just take a look at his voting record. If there's a more principled legislator, I'd like to see him/her. But you're right... you can never know FOR SURE.



    Well, I'll just have to keep making the case, I guess:

    Here's a good (and humorous) place to start:
    Daily Show: Changefest '09



    On a more serious note:
    • Neither support an federal amendment supporting gay marriage.
    • Both supported Both supported the Patriot Act.
    • Both supported FISA.
    • Both support a National ID card.
    • Both support a larger federal government, more spending, and less personal responsibility.
    • Both support federal interference with the free market.
    • Both support large federal bailouts of big business.
    • Both support the Federal Reserve and the IRS.
    • Both support offshore drilling.
    • Both won presidential campaigns with the message of 'change' and bipartisan ship.
    • Both support the federal 'war on drugs.'
    • Both are 'weak' on border security.
    • Both support Capital Punishment
    • Both support a similar foreign policy with Iran.
    • Both support foreign 'nation building'.
    • Both support the military industrial complex.


    http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/13/wall.bush-obama/index.html

     

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