Obama proposes $300 Billion in Tax Cuts

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by fivepoint, Jan 5, 2009.

  1. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #1
  2. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #2
    Yup. And this just in from Agora's 5-Minute Forecast:

    "We have to say we love the financial media chatter on this first business day of the penultimate year of the first decade of the new millennium. On the one hand, the president-elect is promising a $300 billion tax cut to accompany the now $775 billion stimulus package working its way through Congress.

    On the other hand, a consortium of state governors are calling for Obama to expand his rescue package to over $1 trillion. Leaders of New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Ohio and Wisconsin petitioned the president-to-be Friday for around 300 billion extra bailout bucks, mostly to help offset state budget shortfalls.

    Meanwhile, 40% of government debt held by public investors will mature in the next 12 months… roughly $2.5 trillion. Meaning they’ll have to roll it over at whatever rate the market will bear at the time."

    I imagine Michigan and California will come along, hats in hand...

    Seems to me that folks wanna play, but they don't wanna pay. Ya wanna dance, ya gotta pay the piper.

    Sooner or later...

    'Rat
     
  3. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    Gonna be hard to find Republicans willing to vote against a tax cut. That's tantamount to raising taxes, in GOP doctrine-land.
     
  4. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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  5. atszyman macrumors 68020

    atszyman

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    You just don't know how to spin it.

    When someone in your party cuts taxes it an economic stimulus. When someone in the other party does it you look at the debt and paint them as fiscally irresponsible. Just like when the opposition fillibusters they're being obstructionist. Or any judge you don't agree with is an "activist" who is "legislating from the bench".
     
  6. Much Ado macrumors 68000

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  7. neiltc13 macrumors 68040

    neiltc13

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    We tried this in the UK. It failed miserably.
     
  8. atszyman macrumors 68020

    atszyman

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    ???

    I was just pointing out that while in the recent past most GOP members haven't met a tax cut they didn't like, now that the tax cut comes from the "enemy" those who don't want to associate with it will suddenly find the ballooning debt and shout "fiscal irresponsibility" as their reason for voting against a tax cut.

    It's really sad that sometimes where the idea came from is more important than the actual content of the idea.

    Both sides do it, and unfortunately it's one of the bigger reason that many of us don't trust the government or politicians. Too many can talk their way into supporting both sides of an issue depending on the source of the idea, and very little constructive debate happens to improve on legislation since the majority side usually won't want to compromise if they can pass their version of the bill without help from the minority party.
     
  9. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    I don't remember the same reaction from you over the bushco taxcuts...
     
  10. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #10
    This all sounds good on it's face (tax cuts always do), but these are pretty severe cuts. Does anyone else see potential problems here?
     
  11. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    Tax cuts is one thing put how about the trillion in bailouts. How are we going to pay for the bailouts with more tax cuts.
     
  12. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    I was wondering the same. I'm actually quite nervous about this.
     
  13. atszyman macrumors 68020

    atszyman

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    Doesn't this work out?

    We've been told for years now that tax cuts increase government revenue, therefore to pay for the bailouts we're cutting taxes. Makes sense, doesn't it?;)
     
  14. neiltc13 macrumors 68040

    neiltc13

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    As I said, we tried this in the UK and it hasn't worked. Granted, our tax cuts were of the wrong sort (the sales tax on goods was cut in an attempt to get people to spend, but it was such a small cut that it made no difference), but there was a bigger problem.

    That bigger problem was that people know that a tax cut now means a tax hike later. What incentive is there for them to spend money and rejuvenate the economy when they know that just around the corner they're going to face an even bigger tax bill?
     
  15. mysterytramp macrumors 65816

    mysterytramp

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    I have no reason to think this is going to happen but what about a national Internet sales tax? Congress has been forbidding the states from charging the tax, and the states are up in arms about it. I have no idea how much a 1% to 5% tax might generate, but it might be less painful than a change in income tax rates.

    Of course, it'll get stomped on everywhere, but I bet someone proposes it.

    mt
     
  16. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    Very bad idea. I don't like that at all. First of all, there's no way an internet sales tax could be fair. It's too easy to work around. The money we'd spend prosecuting people who cheat it would far outweigh any good it could do.
     
  17. neiltc13 macrumors 68040

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    It works in the UK, sales tax is the same online as offline, 15%.
     
  18. leekohler macrumors G5

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    Here sales tax varies state by state. That's why it can't work. This is a MUCH larger country than the UK.
     
  19. MacTraveller macrumors regular

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    We're going to conquer Canada.

    Plunder their resources. And enslave their people. It's been planned long ago.
     
  20. fivepoint thread starter macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    Absolutely... you don't think we have contingency plans for when global warming really takes hold? Poor bastards barely have the guns to defend themselves... what with their dislodged jaws and all.

    [​IMG]
     
  21. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    In fiscal 2007, Texas collected some $20 billion in sales taxes at a state tax rate of 6-1/4%. First question: What percentage of all sales would be from use of the Internet? Five percent? More? If five percent, then a one-billion tax take.

    Pro-rate the income for all states, by population. Texas is roughly seven percent, so that would mean, nationwide, an income of some fourteen billion dollars in sales taxes on Internet sales. Double it to ten percent? $28 bilion. Subtract administrative and enforcement costs.

    Nowhere near enough to do any useful debt coverage of the bailouts or any losses from tax cuts. And, as usual, regressive load on the lower-income folks.

    'Rat
     
  22. benthewraith macrumors 68040

    benthewraith

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    #22
    When the government racks up too much debt bailing out the businesses, they must tax us severely to make up the difference. In turn, causing a future economic downturn.
     
  23. atszyman macrumors 68020

    atszyman

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    Many internet sales are not charged sales tax at all. What would the take in TX have been if they had collected 6.25% on every internet transaction as well? I don't think that it would provide enough extra money to skew your results one way or the other, but many people use the internet as a way to avoid sales tax.
     
  24. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    Huh? :confused: We're talking about tax cuts, not increases.
     
  25. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    #25
    Are you kidding? That wouldn't last us two weeks. :D

    Obama and team have been preparing the waters for talk of a trillion dollar budget deficit... for more than one year.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/07/us/politics/07obama.html?hp

    This is a tightrope, with respect to benthewraith's point. Too little stimulus and the economy will not recover. Too much spending, and the economy will also falter due to lack of market trust in the government. In the very best of scenarios, this will incur huge costs for us over the next couple of decades in paying back all this money, but we'll have an economy that will allow us to do it. But this is still a do or die situation.

    EDIT: I think ben's point does have some basic validity... the tax cuts, like any other stimulus, has a negative impact on the total budget for the government. The debt created by the budget deficit comes due at some point -- eventually, we have to pay for it, and that is probably going to be a major problem after all the debt necessary to fix this problem (and wrap up our two wars) is said and done.
     

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