Obama Removes Ban On Gitmo Military Trials

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by kavika411, Mar 7, 2011.

  1. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #1
    Obama Removes Ban On Gitmo Military Trials

     
  2. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #2
    Obama was horrible on this. He said he wanted to close it and basically kept his mouth shut. Never made a case to the American people on why it should be closed. Epic fail on his part.
     
  3. quagmire macrumors 603

    quagmire

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    #3
    This isn't about closing Gitmo. It's about resuming Military Commissions instead of trying them in civilian court.
     
  4. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #4
    Of course this is about Gitmo (not) closing. He let these prisoners sit there for 2 years while he failed in trying to close Gitmo and try them in civilian courts.
     
  5. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    #5
    It's not an issue of simply closing the base (in fact that's an irrelevant issue), but the illegal prison. The real question is how to deal with all the people Bush put in there.

    Obama promised to deal with this, but that has not happened yet and the legal proceedings are likely to go on for years. That in itself is not unreasonable, but I had really hoped for more transparency about this situation from the incoming Obama administration. That is what disappoints me.

    My (cynical) guess is that Obama has discovered the enormity of the problems Bush created with his Gitmo adventure, and the reality is so ugly he doesn't want us to know about it. It's a black mark on Bush in particular, America in general and Obama's administration has inherited it, but not really made the kinds of positive steps we hoped for.
     
  6. quagmire macrumors 603

    quagmire

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    #6
    He did a test run of a civilian trial to a person associated with an embassy bombing. The guy was found guilty on only one charge. Obviously, he wasn't going to take the same risk with high up Al-Qaeda members.
     
  7. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #7
    That one charge got him 20+ years didn't it? :confused:

    Is it a tally count or something?
     
  8. quagmire macrumors 603

    quagmire

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    #8
    Considering out of the charges, it was the weakest one.

    It is definitely a worry for me at least that he could have walked......
     
  9. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #9
    Then I guess we should have some pretty damning and solid evidence if we try to bring people up on charges, you know justice.

    Is the natural solution really to just make it easier to convict people? That sounds like an abuse or work around to justice to me...
     
  10. quagmire macrumors 603

    quagmire

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    #10
    What if we captured Bin Laden, but due to some screw up in civilian court he walked?

    Although I don't think we could find an impartial jury to try Bin Laden in civilian court.......
     
  11. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #11
    What happened to you are innocent until proven guilty? If the government can't prove that they are guilty of something then they should walk, and probably get some compensation for being held illegally for so long.
     
  12. iStudentUK macrumors 65816

    iStudentUK

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    #12
    This is terrible news, I heard it on the radio this morning. How can this be allowed to continue? A massive human rights violation!

    In Europe the human rights convention applies where ever the country has jurisdiction, not just national soil. Is this not the case in the US? I'm still shocked all these years on that a modern, developed country can do this so openly.

    Use the International Criminal Court in The Hague for crimes against humanity.
     
  13. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #13
    Obama has a lot of explaining to do on this subject. This is terrible. We here in Illinois would have been OK with the prisoners being sent here if it meant they could get civilian trials.
     
  14. zap2 macrumors 604

    zap2

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    #14
    Disappointment.....not a deal breaker, but a big step away from the person I wanted to see in the Oval Office.

    I suppose you pick and choice your battles, but still, I had high hopes.
     
  15. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #15
    President Obama and the Democrats tried to close Guantanamo and move the prisoners to Illinois. Who blocked it? In basketball, if I shoot but get my shot blocked, am I blamed for missing the shot, or do they get credit for blocking my attempt?

    Yes, I think many would have liked the President to have been able to keep his promise, but let's not forget who should shoulder the blame. The Republicans that helped vote for and set up this "albatross" have blocked every effort to fix the problem. They deserve the credit for making the mess, and they deserve the blame for keeping President Obama from being able to fix it. (As do the spineless Democrats who didn't back President Obama on this issue. As do the American people for not standing up for our principals and demanding that the Republicans stop playing political games with everything.)

    President Obama may have been stuck in a situation where the credibility of the US was at stake. He may have been forced to choose between what was best for the country (hiding the abuses of the prior administration) and trying to do what was right despite opposition from an emboldened Republican party.

    Why is it not news that a senior Bush administration official just admitted that the Guantanamo prison was illegitimate?
     
  16. iStudentUK macrumors 65816

    iStudentUK

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    #16
    Interesting point, I guess from a political/foreign relations point of view drawing more attention to these issues isn't a good idea if the stories that emerge will outweigh the good PR from closing the prison.

    I wonder if the number of prisoners will reduce over time following military trials and the Gitmo embarrassment will disappear that way. Just a thought.

    Still amazed the courts haven't stepped in yet, they would have here by now (in fact- they did!).
     
  17. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #17
    I disagreed with the Bush administration on many issues, but I certainly don't want to see my country drug through the mud, and I certainly don't want to see a former president prosecuted. No matter how I feel about what they did, my country comes first.
     
  18. codymac macrumors 6502

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    #18
    If Babe Ruth swung a strike after pointing to center field, he'd still look like an ass - regardless of who was pitching. Same here.
     
  19. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #19
    But if he hit the ball, and the center fielder climbed the wall and took away the home run... what more could Ruth have done? Hit it higher? Not without the American people's support, the election of Democrats who actually vote for liberal policies, and a few fewer nutbag Repubilcans opposing everything and making a mokery of the Senate.
     
  20. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #20
    That would be acceptable if this were a sport. It's not. We're talking about people's lives.
     
  21. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #21
    Well, thats a shame. I'd like to see my country live up to its supposed values and rhetoric.

    By every sense of the word Bush Jr. is a war criminal. Not to fear though, so was Clinton, Bush Sr, Reagan (he really overachieved here), etc. Obama is as well if international law and agreements mean anything to you (the USA seems to be the only country that just doesn't give a damn about the things it agrees to).

    The USA has a long history of illegal actions on the world stage, and apparently no shame in it.

    All the UN inspectors and honest journalists had visited the very sites, that Powell showed in his UN "smoking gun" speech that got the support for war, and knew that everything that was told to us (all the evidence) was pure crap. Powell gave that speech on 2/6/2003.

    The link is a document by the Associated Press's Charles Hanley (whom personally visited each of the sites named by Powell as concrete proof) that he posted on 1/18/2003.

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2003-01-18-iraq-concern-areas_x.htm

    We were completely lied to. None of this "bad intelligence" **** holds up, the UN inspectors were there for months and found nothing, this AP report was sent to every major news source (as that is what the AP does) and this link is the only evidence I can find of it online. The story was buried under the drumbeat of a military complex/press that was pushing for war.

    We were knowingly lied to by our government and the press was complicit in refusing to engage in a practice that we call journalism.
     
  22. 184550 Guest

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    May 8, 2008
    #22
    You act like these actions are unique to the United States and its elected officials; they're not.

    I could substitute in almost any other country and your tirade would still hold true.

    Countries acting independently and for their own interests is nothing new.
     
  23. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #23
    So no outrage at all huh? Who would have guessed. :rolleyes:

    The sheer scale of this atrocity would make it pretty hard to to find a suitable case you could easily compare to. I really don't know of anything comparable in history like this.

    There are over a million dead civilians (roughly 90% of all casualties there are civilians) in Iraq because of this war, a war fabricated entirely on nothing but lies and the desire to have a geological foothold (I guess the dozens of other bases in the region aren't enough) in the world's energy center.
     
  24. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #24
    Agreed. I'm not sure what we could possibly compare this sham of a war to.
     
  25. codymac macrumors 6502

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    #25
    Then the great Babe would still look like an ass for calling his shot.

    And it undermines everything about law and justice that we claim to stand for as a nation - absolutely disgusting. There are no excuses for anyone in Washington on this one.
     

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