Obama signs law legalising the slaughtering of horses in the US

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by firestarter, Nov 30, 2011.

  1. firestarter macrumors 603

    firestarter

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    #1
    http://our-compass.org/2011/11/29/obama-signs-law-legalizing-horse-slaughter-in-the-us/

    I'm interested to find out how the forum feels about this.

    Personally, as a meat eater I care about animal welfare, but I'm not sentimental about any particular animal. I'd happily eat horse (or dog for that matter), as long as the animal led a relatively happy life prior to death.

    The article I quoted above seems to feel that horses should be singled out for special treatment, and that there's a causal relationship between slaughter and animal abuse. I don't see this... and I don't think it's a good argument.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. puma1552 macrumors 601

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    #2
    I ate raw horse from time to time in Japan, as it's a specialty in the southernmost part of Kyushu. It wasn't bad at all, very lean.
     
  3. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    #3
    I had no idea this was an issue of interest.

    I am in favor of a maximally "free" environment for any animals and as humane as possible killing, but I don't see why horses should be placed in any kind of special category that prevents their slaughter. The article raises some points about hidden costs associated with the bill, but it's clearly a pretty biased article. Washington Times and the GAO seem to think it's a (small) economic win.

    What I'm most shocked about is that they (Congress and the White House) were spending time on this instead of working in earnest on the deficit. I doubt that horse slaughtering is going to solve our financial woes.
     
  4. renewed macrumors 68040

    renewed

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    #4
    Piece of **** Obama and Congress. And yeah that's all I have to say about his ass.
     
  5. soco macrumors 68030

    soco

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    #5
    Wow, weird to think of slaughtering horses... Did anyone else immediately think of The Ring?
     
  6. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #6
    PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of animals) supports the Bill just signed by the President. That ought to tell you something.

    The fact of the matter is that, under the existing law, since it was illegal to slaughter horses in the US, many old or unwanted horses were simply shipped off to other countries, where there was often little, if any, supervision of the conditions.

    I'm sure a lot of professed horse-lovers will be up in arms about this. But I'm not sure it makes a lot of difference to an old, sick horse if he gets slaughtered in Mexico or in Texas. But it does seem better to have it done in the US, where we can at least count on inspection programs to make sure it is done as humanely as possible.
     
  7. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    #7
    If this was good enough for suspected terrorists under extraordinary rendition, why is it not good enough for horses? :mad:

    Oh, wait.
     
  8. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #8
    while not a big fan of slaughtering horses. Just going to point out that this is not him legalising it.

    It more of the fact that it restores funding to inspect the meat which allows it to be sold for humans to eat.
    I think how they went about trying to kill the industry back in 2007 was crap. Instead of banning they just defund the ability for it to be inspected. I hate that way of trying to stop something and it is back door and under handed.

    It is like how the GOP are trying to stop the health care law and they are going to do it is by stopping it from being funded. Instead of trying to remove it they instead just try to stop they cheat. Cheating things like defunding stuff is crap.
     
  9. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #9
    The same thing could be said about the Indian Freedmen issue. It wouldn't have solved our financial woes either, but it was (and still is) an important issue to some.

    I guess the point is that just because it isn't the biggest issue, which obviously won't get solved in a short amount of time, doesn't mean that smaller, less important issues (but important nonetheless) couldn't get resolved.

    BL.
     
  10. Peace macrumors Core

    Peace

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    #10
    That about sums up my view.

    With the exception that I hope the FDA doesn't allow that kind of meat not be reported in foodstuff.
     
  11. lewis82 macrumors 68000

    lewis82

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    #11
    One has to be consistent. It's okay to eat beef, but not to eat horse? What's the difference? As long as they don't suffer, I'm okay with this. After all it's legal in Canada, in France and as puma1552 said in Japan.

    (Plus horse is often cheaper than beef and much more tasty :))
     
  12. firestarter thread starter macrumors 603

    firestarter

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    #12
    This seems sensible.

    The reaction against horse slaughter and Obama's action does seem to be an irrational "OMG, they're killing horses".

    If the horses are going to be killed anyway (in a foreign country with lower slaughterhouse standards) than I would have thought that killing under regulated conditions, and having the meat inspected would have the effect of raising welfare across the board.
     
  13. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    #13
    Yeah, okay, I'll give you that. I guess they would not have made deficit progress whether they worked on this or not.

    It's interesting that this had bipartisan support, and the GAO, and PETA, and.... okay, let's give it a try and see what happens.
     
  14. firestarter thread starter macrumors 603

    firestarter

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    #14
    Can you be a little more specific?

    Is this about just general hate of Obama, or is it about preferring horses to be slaughtered in Mexico rather than the US?
     
  15. renewed macrumors 68040

    renewed

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    #15
    This is absolutely a moral issue on my part and instead of ****ing around with this **** why don't they ban it and make it illegal to ship horses out to be slaughtered anywhere instead of saying oh well it'll happen anyway so let's do this. That's the crap that is killing this country and the world. Giving up and saying it'll happen anyway.

    And before you say anything I want to know how many of you have actually interacted with horses and taken care of them. I volunteer for Habitat for Horses and have taken care of upwards of 90 at a time.

    To those who own cats or dogs how would you like to know that it was legal to kill them and eat them. That some guy at a restaurant is eating what could of been a loving caring pet for someone? And to those who don't understand it then to hell with you.

    The level of caring and compassion in the world is on a continual downward spiral and it's a sad, sad place in the making.

    And yes congress (democrats, republicans both), Obama, and anyone else who is for this I have zero respect for.
     
  16. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #16

    What about the slaughter of Cows, pigs and chickens? Are you against those as well?
     
  17. Macaddicttt macrumors 6502a

    Macaddicttt

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    #17
    So if people started keeping cows as pets you'd stop eating beef? Or what about pork? Wait, people do keep pigs as pets. I assume you don't eat bacon then.

    Just because you develop an emotional bond with a certain type of animal doesn't really mean squat when it comes to legislation. Why is your emotional attachment any more privileged than anyone else's?
     
  18. firestarter thread starter macrumors 603

    firestarter

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    #18
    If you're a vegan then I respect your position but I disagree with you.

    If you're a meat eater, please justify your hypocrisy.
     
  19. Abyssgh0st macrumors 68000

    Abyssgh0st

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    #19
    So because we as a society are more sentimental about horses rather than say cows, it's wrong to kill them? I wonder how you all would feel if Seabiscuit and Secretariat were about cows. :rolleyes:
     
  20. Perrumpo macrumors 68000

    Perrumpo

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    #20
    Here is my response:

    DISCLAIMER: For the sake of argument, this discussion is based on the hypothetical assumption that eating meat is acceptable in order to focus on why horses should or shouldn't be slaughtered in comparison to any other animal.

    I have two main points in my stance on this subject which lead to a few others. Before we get to that, most of my life revolved around horses, and I lived on some dairy farms, too. I often went to horse auctions where there are many horses in rough shape, including ex racehorses, and I'd buy a few of them, rehab them, retrain them, and sell them to safe, permanent homes. Part of the Bill of Sale stated that I had the right of first refusal to buy the horse for the original price should the new owner decide to sell him/her.

    However, I am wholly capable of forming an unbiased opinion on the moral aspects of this topic. I am opposed to legalizing the slaughter of horses because I believe it too immoral for the following reasons:

    1.) Firstly, it is my opinion that no animal should live a life of suffering prior to being slaughtered. This holds true for animals raised specifically for slaughter as well as animals that were not raised for slaughter. The legalization of the slaughtering of horses unfortunately means that the majority of horses sold to slaughter have lived a life of suffering, whether through abuse or racing (yes, racing is cruel, which I have seen plenty of first hand). This is because, unlike cows for example, there are no horses in the US who are raised for slaughter, so killers go to the aforementioned auctions to buy the cheapest possible horses. Naturally, the cheapest horses are those who are in the poorest condition.

    With the slaughtering of horses illegal, this means none of those horses would be sold to slaughter and instead are most likely to be sold to decent homes at those auctions. This information is based on my personal experience at the auctions I would regularly attend where Animal Control would patrol in order to prosecute owners of emaciated horses brought to auction. If all animal abuse could be stopped, and was stopped, then there would be nothing more immoral about horses being sold to slaughter than any other animal. Unfortunately, though, this obviously isn't the case.

    2.) Secondly, it is my opinion that the actual slaughtering of an animal should cause as little suffering as is realistically possible. This point is more straightforward than the previous one. As mentioned in the article, horses are slaughtered in ways that cause an unnecessary amount of suffering. This holds true not only for horses, but other slaughtered animals as well. This is equally immoral for any species.

    3.) What about the other animals that are slaughtered immorally? The answer to this involves my first point. I do not condone eating a cow who has been slaughtered immorally. However, if avoiding consuming meat from an animal who has not been slaughtered morally is not possible, and it has already been established that eating meat is not immoral, then in order to eat meat, the best one can do is choose the lesser of two evils. This is an unfortunate predicament, but nevertheless, it is the case in this discussion. Therefore, under these circumstances, I would eat an immorally-slaughtered cow who has lived a good life over an immorally-slaughtered horse who has lived an abusive life.

    Is this ideal? No. Would a perfect person avoid eating meat entirely? Yes.

    4.) But what if a horse, like a cow, was to be raised for slaughter and lived a good life prior to being slaughtered? Then the horse is on the same moral ground as the cow.

    5.) If the horse and cow were on the same moral ground, would you eat the horse? This has absolutely nothing to do with the logic of morality involved in the slaughtering of horses. It is purely a personal preference. I would not eat the horse, but that is simply because I don't want to, not because I think it is more immoral in this case.

    So, all things being equal, horses receive no special treatment over cows. However, until this is the case, the slaughtering of a horse is currently more immoral and, therefore, should not happen.
     
  21. AP_piano295 macrumors 65816

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    #21
    You are a vegetarian of course?
     
  22. zap2 macrumors 604

    zap2

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    #22
    How is Obama's fault? It's his job to sign or veto bills. He signed it, so the Congress doesn't have to spend more time on it.

    This was actually the quickest thing he could have done.
     
  23. likemyorbs macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

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    #23
    Yes. That's our right as a nation, the same way India views cows as holy. If US culture is against slaughtering of horses, then that's our societal norm and our laws should reflect it. There's nothing wrong with that. I think horse slaughtering and exporting should be banned in the US in accordance to our national customs.
     
  24. Macaddicttt macrumors 6502a

    Macaddicttt

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    #24
    Why outlaw something simply because of customs? And what exactly is a "national custom" anyway? Can we outlaw Chinese New Year celebrations because it's not part of our "national customs?"

    That is far too nebulous a requirement for outlawing something.

    And even if it is "our right," it is also "our right" to legalize horse meat, which our duly elected representatives did.

    (And P.S. beef is available in India.)
     
  25. Peace macrumors Core

    Peace

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    #25
    I voted for Obama. He has disappointed me very much.
    Congress as a whole and republicans in specific should be fired.

    I understand people eat horsemeat. I had it once in Mexico when I was in the navy. I did not like it and the slaughter of horses for food makes me sick to my stomach.

    Beef is one thing but this new law . Where will it lead ?

    Dog meat ? Cat meat ? The possibilities are endless.
     

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