Obama State Department, friends of Clinton worked to feed information to Steele

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by zin, Feb 7, 2018.

  1. zin macrumors 6502

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    #1
    https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/im...to DOJ FBI (Unclassified Steele Referral).pdf

    This memo from the Senate was recently released with fewer redactions. Page six notes that Steele received unsolicited information from people whilst compiling his memos. The succeeding paragraph notes that the information came from a 'contact' of a friend of the Clintons, who passed it to the Obama State Department, in turn feeding it to Steele.

    Wow. Crooked's cronies didn't just fund his work, they were also feeding him allegations in collusion with the State Department.
     
  2. samcraig macrumors P6

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    #2
    Feeding him intel - but wasn't it Steele's job to verify the information and determine its credibility regardless of source?
     
  3. zin thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #3
    At what point is the line drawn over Steele? Is there even a line for you? He wasn't just being paid by the Clinton cronies, they were also feeding him allegations. The Obama State Department was also facilitating this. The incumbent administration was colluding with a campaign to funnel unverified allegations against another campaign to a political opp. hack. Unverified allegations that he included in at least one of the memos, as the link states.

    You see nothing wrong here? Goodness.
     
  4. samcraig macrumors P6

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    #4
    You can stop the faux outrage at things I never said. I never said I see nothing wrong. I asked a question. "wasn't it Steele's job to verify the information and determine its credibility regardless of source?"

    Do you have an answer - or do you want to create another straw man?
     
  5. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    #5

    There are other vastly more important issues like Trump's twitter and a possible military parade. Stuff like that.
     
  6. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

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    #6
    Maybe list the things you do see wrong with it?
     
  7. obeygiant macrumors 68040

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    #7

    Good! Then we can both agree that the whole situation of the Obama Admin possibly feeding info to Steele is pretty bad.
     
  8. samcraig macrumors P6

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    #8
    I never said that either. I guess I'm not needed for you and Zin to have a discussion about what I'm saying - so I'll bow out LOL
     
  9. TiggrToo, Feb 7, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018

    TiggrToo macrumors 6502a

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    #9
    This substantiated or just another assumption? Remember Nunes 'Memo' - that came from the Government but turned out to be little more than a laughing stock that was disinherited by some of the major players involved in it.
     
  10. hulugu macrumors 68000

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    #10
    What a hatchet job. The central claim of this document is that the FBI's FISA warrant can't be trusted because FBI agents apparently relied on Steele's "dossier" which was funded by the Clinton campaign, and included information from the State Dept.

    Um, what? Why are Republican members of the intelligence committee playing Defense Attorney? This is a classic "Fruit of the poisonous tree" argument usually used to suppress evidence of a crime.

    The officer found drugs in the car, but violated probable cause, so the drugs cannot be used as evidence.

    But, that doesn't prove that the client wasn't smuggling 40-pounds of Mexican ditch weed, rather it's an attempt to hang up the legal process.

    And, this whole effort should give us pause.

    The President of the United States may still be deeply involved in a Russian-led conspiracy and may be fundamentally compromised, but let's stop the investigation anyway. Because a Clinton supporter told Steele that Trump might be dirty.
     
  11. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

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    #11
    While I agree with you, I just want to understand one thing. You want all rules of evidentiary procedure/admissibility and warrants to be thrown out the window for this particular case due to the "big picture"?
     
  12. zin thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #12
    To answer your question, nobody knows what his job was. Right now it sure looks like he was just a foreign puppet used by the Clintons to draft fakery and who accepted unsolicited and unverified information to put into some of his reports. According to Steele, he was a respected investigator who was sincerely shocked at the things he looked at. Based on the information we know is true that has come out, I know which story I'm believing.

    I'm curious what you think is wrong with it, then? This kind of interaction between an incumbent government and political campaigns over "opposition research" is what you'd have seen in the Soviet Union. It is totally ****ed.
     
  13. hulugu macrumors 68000

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    #13
    Ideally, I want the FISA court to rule on the warrant, and the FBI to continue investigating alternate evidentiary chains. If the court rules that the FBI did not mislead the court, and the warrant is still valid, then the FBI should continue.

    Also, admissibility doesn't come into play unless someone's charged, so while Page could conceivably challenge his case, that's not necessarily true for Papadopolous or Flynn.

    And, in either case, even if the government could not indict people, that doesn't mean there wasn't a crime. Just that the FBI can't prosecute.
     
  14. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

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    #14
    ....and if the FBI mislead the FISA court then what? What I'm getting at is does it matter to you if the FBI did mislead the court and if so what bearing does it have going forward. If you say proceed with the investigation like nothing happened then you're pretty much saying you could care less what the FBI does to get warrants and then it's a free for all.
     
  15. 0007776 Suspended

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    #15
    And do you agree that the Russians feeding information to Trump is pretty bad too?
     
  16. Bug-Creator macrumors 6502a

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    #16
    Since I can never be a criminally case, rules may not apply.

    Quite sure a lot of evidence used against Nixon, Clinton or Clinton would have been thrown out if it had ever come to that.
     
  17. obeygiant macrumors 68040

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    #17
    FISAs purpose was to provide oversight for foreign intelligence surveillance activities. These might include tracing telephone and email use, conducting physical searches or accessing business records. FISA lays out guidelines and procedures for these activities.

    FISA applies only to "foreign powers" and "agents of foreign powers." Basically, this means that FISA is used to gather information about people who work for the governments of other countries. Investigators are typically not allowed to target U.S. citizens under FISA. In fact, if information about a U.S. citizen is accidentally discovered, the law requires those records to be destroyed.

    But there are some notable exceptions.

    One is when the discovered information shows that there is a threat of death or serious harm to another person. Another is that officials can wiretap U.S. citizens while they are overseas. Importantly, FISA warrants can also be requested to monitor U.S. citizens believed to be acting on behalf of a foreign power.

    As part of FISA, Congress established the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, or FISA court.

    The FISA court is a U.S. federal court whose purpose is to review and rule on search warrant requests made under FISA. Each year, the FISA court is required to provide a report to Congress of its activities. These reports include the number of requests made under FISA, but not the content of those requests. That content is not a matter of public record.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 7, 2018 ---
    I guess it would be. Did Trump take that information to a secret court and get a warrant to spy on another US citizen?
     
  18. hulugu macrumors 68000

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    #18
    Well, then whatever the FBI gleaned from the FISA warrant has to be diminished and the agents should face sanctions. And, if that sinks the investigation so be it. But, let's be clear, that doesn't mean these guys are innocent, it means they got off on a technicality. And, the President may still be compromised.

    But, do we really think that the "Lock her up" crowd gives a rat's ass about the rules of rules of procedure? Or evidence? No, it's very clear that Nunes, et. al. are trying to protect the president, not because his cabal are innocent, but because they know that an evidentiary chain is dangerous.
     
  19. bopajuice Suspended

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    #19
    Is this like playing the 7 degrees of separation game? How far do you have to reach to find a connection to something... anything. Wow! Lot's of what if's here...

    As ridiculous as saying: A friend of Steele's hairdresser said that Steele was watching Fox News while getting his hair cut. Does that mean Republicans influenced his dossier?
     
  20. skunk macrumors G4

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    #20
    Something certainly stinks here.
     
  21. hulugu macrumors 68000

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    #21
    Well, the central claim is that State Department officials can't be trusted because they worked with Clinton. Forgetting of course that the State Dept. has its own intelligence apparatus, and that U.S. embassies are the official cover for dozens of CIA agents.

    The Trumpistas are trying to say that the entire U.S. intelligence apparatus, including the FBI cannot be trusted. But, we're totally right about North Korea and Iran.
     
  22. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

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    #22
    That's fair. There are some that will want to see this seen through to the end regardless of what the FBI did. But if the roles were reversed and it was a democrat in office those same people would be screaming at the roof tops that the FBI is corrupt and it should put and end to everything. Because let's be honest, the Democrats in bed with the intelligence community is a rare sight to see. Them pretending now that they (the intelligence community) is as pure as snow is white is even weirder.
     
  23. hulugu macrumors 68000

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    #23
    Yeah, this is such a bizarre situation.

    Andy Borowitz nailed it last week, with "Former Hippies Put in Horrible Position of Rooting for F.B.I."

     
  24. CaptMurdock Suspended

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    #24
    Huh. I see a heavily redacted page with lots of innuendo, Hail Mary's and borderline hearsay. "The more likely it was..." "This implies..."

    I wouldn't call this a smoking gun. More like a leaky water pistol. While I won't say that this doesn't mean there was nothing rotten in the State of Denmark, this memo is not nearly enough.
     
  25. tgara macrumors 6502a

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    #25
    Right, its not the end. The document is a criminal referral requesting the FBI investigate potential violations, so expect more on this in the coming months. But, it does lay out key facts about the whole affair.
     

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45 February 7, 2018