Obama stopping indiscriminate monitoring


rdowns

macrumors Penryn
Jul 11, 2003
27,345
12,408
This is so far beyond anything Obama or any President can stop. Only Congress can do that.

Best tweet of the day:

@SenRandPaul ICYMI: Here is the cliff notes version of @BarackObama's #NSA reforms. http://t.co/Q0H1Q941ap

 

Eraserhead

macrumors G4
Original poster
Nov 3, 2005
10,300
10,370
UK
He hasn't stopped anything! It is all a bunch of hot air. These are proposals for change not something that is being implemented. Think of it like way back in 2007 & 2008 when running for president he said he wanted to close Guantanamo Bay.
To be fair I think Obama tried pretty hard to close Guantanamo Bay.

I will agree that these reforms so far could be just hot air.
 

Zombie Acorn

macrumors 65816
Feb 2, 2009
1,301
9,062
Toronto, Ontario
I don't understand the need for a secret court. If the FBI suspects a terrorist why can't they get a warrant like we do for any other criminal?

I don't think Obama alone can stop this even if he wanted to. It would have to be a collective effort... That means democrats and republicans would have to work together to end this...

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NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
12,141
13,987
I've got to hand it to him. Best Propaganda presidency in quite a while, and thats factoring in the last one whose PR got us into a war with absolutely no merit.

If Obama goes on about trade deals at the State of The Union address it's confirmed, the USA (and sadly therefore the world) is no longer a state, it's a client of the global corporatocracy.

I've had it. For decades we've been relinquishing control to companies. They don't care about us, yet every time we see a glimmer of reform (when a ****ing wrecking ball is needed) you see the nations elected leadership reveal an amazingly naked case of stockholm syndrome.

"Jobs!" "Freedom!" "********!"

:mad:
 

0007776

Suspended
Jul 11, 2006
6,474
8,051
Somewhere
Agreed - it seems more modest than the BBC and the speech imply - http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/195799-obama-wants-to-overhaul-nsa
Yeah, it kind of seems like these are just proposals that depending on what Congress and the NSA feel like doing may or may not happen. And if they say that they are actually happening there doesn't seem to be much in his proposals to allow people to actually verify if they are doing anything, I'm assuming that if anyone decided to blow the whistle on a secret continuation of these programs they would be arrested or forced into exile like Snowden.

I also think that the idea of having all the data that the NSA collects held by a third party is even worse than having the NSA hold it themselves as then there is another layer of complexity that would make it a bit easier for criminals to break in and misuse the data.
 

NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
12,141
13,987
I also think that the idea of having all the data that the NSA collects held by a third party is even worse than having the NSA hold it themselves as then there is another layer of complexity that would make it a bit easier for criminals to break in and misuse the data.
It's misdirection.

Basically it's the same logic that makes it legal (and mandated) for the Telecoms to hold onto the data until requested by the NSA. The Agency can access it, but is not responsible for ownership. Because the information is owned by a 3rd party corporation, they are immune from FOIA requests.

This exact policy is the model that the Administration has spent the last few years migrating to.
 

VulchR

macrumors 68020
Jun 8, 2009
2,329
10,251
Scotland
I was glad Obama was elected, but this is BS. I still have not heard any answers regarding how the NSA protects the rights of US citizens living overseas (like myself) when they indiscriminately spy on foreign communications.

I want any surveillance stopped unless the is pre-existing evidence that it is essential for national security (as opposed to commercial interests) or that an actual crime has been committed. Otherwise, the NSA can just sod off.

And I don't like the idea of the collected information being held by a third party for the NSA - what third party? How secure will it be? Who will watch that the third party does not abuse power?
 

Peace

macrumors Core
Apr 1, 2005
19,466
3,831
Space--The ONLY Frontier
I was glad Obama was elected, but this is BS. I still have not heard any answers regarding how the NSA protects the rights of US citizens living overseas (like myself) when they indiscriminately spy on foreign communications.

I want any surveillance stopped unless the is pre-existing evidence that it is essential for national security (as opposed to commercial interests) or that an actual crime has been committed. Otherwise, the NSA can just sod off.

And I don't like the idea of the collected information being held by a third party for the NSA - what third party? How secure will it be? Who will watch that the third party does not abuse power?
Saying a 3rd party would have the info is capitol hill speak for "we're gonna continue doing it and give it to other agencies that don't have it".
 

Huntn

macrumors demi-god
May 5, 2008
17,038
16,520
The Misty Mountains
I listened to President Obama's news conference/speech today about proposed changes to the surveillance programs in question and I was impressed. Now it's wait and see.
 

NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
12,141
13,987
I listened to President Obama's news conference/speech today about proposed changes to the surveillance programs in question and I was impressed. Now it's wait and see.
Yea, he's a man that does good speeches. After that?
 

CalWizrd

Suspended
Jun 21, 2011
373
1,554
NYC/Raleigh, NC
You mean the adversarial political party who says no to everything he tries to do? He's a competent leader whether you like him or not unlike the Dumbo puppet who came before him.
Good speaker? Actually, a great speaker.

Competent leader? Opinions vary. My personal opinion... no way.
 

Huntn

macrumors demi-god
May 5, 2008
17,038
16,520
The Misty Mountains
Good speaker? Actually, a great speaker.

Competent leader? Opinions vary. My personal opinion... no way.
Would you admit that when you walk in the door if half of your followers hate you and have a political agenda that drastically conflicts with your own, are not cooperative or have no incentive to cooperate, that it make leadership difficult to say the least?
 

CalWizrd

Suspended
Jun 21, 2011
373
1,554
NYC/Raleigh, NC
Would you admit that when you walk in the door if half of your followers hate you and have a political agenda that drastically conflicts with your own, are not cooperative or have no incentive to cooperate, that it make leadership difficult to say the least?
My biggest problem with his (lack of) leadership style is the attempt to lead through division rather than inclusion.

Since day 1 of his presidency, he has been busy demonizing one group or another... "it's us against them" crap. I think that sucks.
 

NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
12,141
13,987
You mean the adversarial political party who says no to everything he tries to do? He's a competent leader whether you like him or not unlike the Dumbo puppet who came before him.
I used to think that too.

Then I looked at his war policies (doubling of covert operations to 134 countries around the world), and the TPP he's trying to fast track (meaning pass before anyone can see whats in it) which essentially finalizes handing over 40% of the world economy to corporations.

He's a corporate capitalist through and through. Don't expect anything to improve when corporate interest runs the show.

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Would you admit that when you walk in the door if half of your followers hate you and have a political agenda that drastically conflicts with your own, are not cooperative or have no incentive to cooperate, that it make leadership difficult to say the least?
BOTH PARTIES ARE AFTER THE SAME ****ING GOALS.

The only reason why this country doesn't realize it is the strategy that has been in place the last 80+ years, wedge issues to ensure we are fighting D vs R while corporations get what they want resulting in the social decay in our country and the violence seen around the world.

There are two types of resources, natural and economic, the TPP finalizes the complete control of both.
 

lannister80

macrumors 6502
Apr 7, 2009
476
17
Chicagoland
My biggest problem with his (lack of) leadership style is the attempt to lead through division rather than inclusion.

Since day 1 of his presidency, he has been busy demonizing one group or another... "it's us against them" crap. I think that sucks.
It's only class warfare when we fight back...funny how that works.

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Careful. You could shatter the dreams of some naive true believer.

Most are just not ready for red pill yet.
The red pill is a joke, though, as it leads to morons like Ron/Rand Paul.

They're different from the Republicrats, but equally worthless.
 

NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
12,141
13,987
Careful. You could shatter the dreams of some naive true believer.

Most are just not ready for red pill yet.
This was all cemented when Clinton campaigned by turning to mainly corporate funding. After that the cat was out of the bag and it seems that most of what is done in public is simply PR moves to distract from the actual policies being implemented.

Just like you saw the CEOs of insurance companies howling from the rooftops about the ACA, "NO NO NO! PLEASE DON'T HAND ME MILLIONS OF NEW SLIGHTLY LESS PROFITABLE CUSTOMERS! THE HORROR OF THE PROFITS TO COME!".

It's tick tock. Support the GOP in railing against Obama, while getting exactly what you want, so that when the Presidency flips again you can be explicit in your goals.

Basically the GOP are the more honest about their disgusting policies, knowing damn well that business will pay their way into office. But the CLINCHER is you only see these disgusting policies get cemented when Dems are in office as part of a "well gee whiz, bipartisanship" "compromise".

It's having your cake, and eating it too.

The worst though is the politicians who don't do this cynically, they participate because they truly believe this ****. See: Rand Paul. I used to see him as a corporate shill, now I know he's just too damn stupid to have an actual opinion, he's pure ideology and one that never had any grounding in reality to begin with.
 

MacNut

macrumors Core
Jan 4, 2002
21,542
7,801
CT
I listened to President Obama's news conference/speech today about proposed changes to the surveillance programs in question and I was impressed. Now it's wait and see.
So you liked his magic show? You don't even want to know how he pulled off the slight of hand?