Obama stopping indiscriminate monitoring

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Eraserhead, Jan 17, 2014.

  1. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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  2. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #2
  3. Eraserhead thread starter macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #3
  4. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #4
    This is so far beyond anything Obama or any President can stop. Only Congress can do that.

    Best tweet of the day:

    @SenRandPaul ICYMI: Here is the cliff notes version of @BarackObama's #NSA reforms. http://t.co/Q0H1Q941ap

    [​IMG]
     
  5. edk99 macrumors 6502a

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    #5
    He hasn't stopped anything! It is all a bunch of hot air. These are proposals for change not something that is being implemented. Think of it like way back in 2007 & 2008 when running for president he said he wanted to close Guantanamo Bay.
     
  6. Eraserhead thread starter macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #6
    To be fair I think Obama tried pretty hard to close Guantanamo Bay.

    I will agree that these reforms so far could be just hot air.
     
  7. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #7
    I don't understand the need for a secret court. If the FBI suspects a terrorist why can't they get a warrant like we do for any other criminal?

    I don't think Obama alone can stop this even if he wanted to. It would have to be a collective effort... That means democrats and republicans would have to work together to end this...

    .........


    .....


    ..
     
  8. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #8
    I've got to hand it to him. Best Propaganda presidency in quite a while, and thats factoring in the last one whose PR got us into a war with absolutely no merit.

    If Obama goes on about trade deals at the State of The Union address it's confirmed, the USA (and sadly therefore the world) is no longer a state, it's a client of the global corporatocracy.

    I've had it. For decades we've been relinquishing control to companies. They don't care about us, yet every time we see a glimmer of reform (when a ****ing wrecking ball is needed) you see the nations elected leadership reveal an amazingly naked case of stockholm syndrome.

    "Jobs!" "Freedom!" "********!"

    :mad:
     
  9. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #9
    Yeah, it kind of seems like these are just proposals that depending on what Congress and the NSA feel like doing may or may not happen. And if they say that they are actually happening there doesn't seem to be much in his proposals to allow people to actually verify if they are doing anything, I'm assuming that if anyone decided to blow the whistle on a secret continuation of these programs they would be arrested or forced into exile like Snowden.

    I also think that the idea of having all the data that the NSA collects held by a third party is even worse than having the NSA hold it themselves as then there is another layer of complexity that would make it a bit easier for criminals to break in and misuse the data.
     
  10. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #10
    It's misdirection.

    Basically it's the same logic that makes it legal (and mandated) for the Telecoms to hold onto the data until requested by the NSA. The Agency can access it, but is not responsible for ownership. Because the information is owned by a 3rd party corporation, they are immune from FOIA requests.

    This exact policy is the model that the Administration has spent the last few years migrating to.
     
  11. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #11
    I was glad Obama was elected, but this is BS. I still have not heard any answers regarding how the NSA protects the rights of US citizens living overseas (like myself) when they indiscriminately spy on foreign communications.

    I want any surveillance stopped unless the is pre-existing evidence that it is essential for national security (as opposed to commercial interests) or that an actual crime has been committed. Otherwise, the NSA can just sod off.

    And I don't like the idea of the collected information being held by a third party for the NSA - what third party? How secure will it be? Who will watch that the third party does not abuse power?
     
  12. Peace macrumors Core

    Peace

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    #12
    Saying a 3rd party would have the info is capitol hill speak for "we're gonna continue doing it and give it to other agencies that don't have it".
     
  13. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #13
    I listened to President Obama's news conference/speech today about proposed changes to the surveillance programs in question and I was impressed. Now it's wait and see.
     
  14. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #14
    Yea, he's a man that does good speeches. After that?
     
  15. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #15
    You mean the adversarial political party who says no to everything he tries to do? He's a competent leader whether you like him or not unlike the Dumbo puppet who came before him.
     
  16. CalWizrd Suspended

    CalWizrd

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    #16
    Good speaker? Actually, a great speaker.

    Competent leader? Opinions vary. My personal opinion... no way.
     
  17. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #17
    Would you admit that when you walk in the door if half of your followers hate you and have a political agenda that drastically conflicts with your own, are not cooperative or have no incentive to cooperate, that it make leadership difficult to say the least?
     
  18. CalWizrd Suspended

    CalWizrd

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    #18
    My biggest problem with his (lack of) leadership style is the attempt to lead through division rather than inclusion.

    Since day 1 of his presidency, he has been busy demonizing one group or another... "it's us against them" crap. I think that sucks.
     
  19. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #19
    I used to think that too.

    Then I looked at his war policies (doubling of covert operations to 134 countries around the world), and the TPP he's trying to fast track (meaning pass before anyone can see whats in it) which essentially finalizes handing over 40% of the world economy to corporations.

    He's a corporate capitalist through and through. Don't expect anything to improve when corporate interest runs the show.

    ----------

    BOTH PARTIES ARE AFTER THE SAME ****ING GOALS.

    The only reason why this country doesn't realize it is the strategy that has been in place the last 80+ years, wedge issues to ensure we are fighting D vs R while corporations get what they want resulting in the social decay in our country and the violence seen around the world.

    There are two types of resources, natural and economic, the TPP finalizes the complete control of both.
     
  20. Technarchy macrumors 603

    Technarchy

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    #20
    Careful. You could shatter the dreams of some naive true believer.

    Most are just not ready for red pill yet.
     
  21. lannister80 macrumors 6502

    lannister80

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    #21
    It's only class warfare when we fight back...funny how that works.

    ----------

    The red pill is a joke, though, as it leads to morons like Ron/Rand Paul.

    They're different from the Republicrats, but equally worthless.
     
  22. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #22
    This was all cemented when Clinton campaigned by turning to mainly corporate funding. After that the cat was out of the bag and it seems that most of what is done in public is simply PR moves to distract from the actual policies being implemented.

    Just like you saw the CEOs of insurance companies howling from the rooftops about the ACA, "NO NO NO! PLEASE DON'T HAND ME MILLIONS OF NEW SLIGHTLY LESS PROFITABLE CUSTOMERS! THE HORROR OF THE PROFITS TO COME!".

    It's tick tock. Support the GOP in railing against Obama, while getting exactly what you want, so that when the Presidency flips again you can be explicit in your goals.

    Basically the GOP are the more honest about their disgusting policies, knowing damn well that business will pay their way into office. But the CLINCHER is you only see these disgusting policies get cemented when Dems are in office as part of a "well gee whiz, bipartisanship" "compromise".

    It's having your cake, and eating it too.

    The worst though is the politicians who don't do this cynically, they participate because they truly believe this ****. See: Rand Paul. I used to see him as a corporate shill, now I know he's just too damn stupid to have an actual opinion, he's pure ideology and one that never had any grounding in reality to begin with.
     
  23. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

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    #23
    [​IMG]
     
  24. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #24
    :mad:

    How dare you tarnish the image of Neil Patrick Harris with....that.
     
  25. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #25
    So you liked his magic show? You don't even want to know how he pulled off the slight of hand?
     

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