Obama to launch cyberwar with Russia

Zombie Acorn

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Zombie Acorn

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The article makes it abundantly clear that prudence is the watchword here. As it notes, Obama may do nothing. This may just be saber-rattling, to let the Russians know that we know what they're up to.
Obama has a history of not being able to play this game, he should stop before this turns into another red line fiasco. Russia would be well within their rights to launch a pre-emptive strike now. The US grid is not impenetrable
 

steve knight

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http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/cia-prepping-possible-cyber-strike-against-russia-n666636

One more step towards the Abyss. Even if Russia was committing cyber warfare to expose the terrible **** Hillary has done they didn't announce it. Now when Russia gets hit there won't be a doubt that's it's the US. Not only that why would you announce a pending cyber attack? This isn't a bake sell Obama.
So we should just let it happen and no nothing since they are trying to help trump??? I am sure they are wiser then you on this.
 
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ChrisWB

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This. Obama has proved again and again that he's not up to the task of playing geopolitics with masters of the art like Putin.
Masters of the art? Russia's economy is in shambles, their trade partners are few and far between, and they can't afford the upkeep of their military. They're viewed unfavorably on the international stage by just about everyone. Their allies are Armenia, Belarus, Kyrgyzstan, Moldova, and Tajikistan. Hardly world players.
 
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Zombie Acorn

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Masters of the art? Russia's economy is in shambles, their trade partners are few and far between, and they can't afford the upkeep of their military. They're viewed unfavorably on the international stage by just about everyone. Their allies are Armenia, Belarus, Kyrgyzstan, Moldova, and Tajikistan. Hardly world players.
Their debt to GDP ratio is also 12% if they wanted to increase that to the 100% range like the west they could probably pretend that they fixed their economy as well.
 

aaronvan

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Masters of the art? Russia's economy is in shambles, their trade partners are few and far between, and they can't afford the upkeep of their military. They're viewed unfavorably on the international stage by just about everyone. Their allies are Armenia, Belarus, Kyrgyzstan, Moldova, and Tajikistan. Hardly world players.
The slump in oil prices hurt the Russian economy but it is hardly "in shambles." They are rapidly modernizing their military and drawing much closer economically and militarily to China, India, and even NATO member Turkey. Russia may be "viewed unfavorably" but realpolitik isn't a popularity contest as Obama believes it is. Power talks and bulls**t walks.

How does one paint a red line in cyberspace?
With CorelDraw?
 
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ChrisWB

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The slump in oil prices hurt the Russian economy but it is hardly "in shambles." They are rapidly modernizing their military and drawing much closer economically and militarily to China, India, and even NATO member Turkey. Russia may be "viewed unfavorably" but realpolitik isn't a popularity contest as Obama believes it is. Power talks and bulls**t walks.
Please source this.

So far they haven't been able to afford a single production plane of their Sukhoi PAK FA. They haven't been able to afford to design the PAK-DA bomber, much less produce a prototype. Their cruise missiles are wildly inaccurate; just look at their embarrassing misses and accidents while targeting Syria last year.

The majority of their bombing in Syria has been done by Su-24 Fencers from the 1970s-80s. The Fencers use handheld GPS units for navigation rather than a proper GPS system. They're held in place with rubber bands. Does the modernization that you mention involve updating their Garmin maps every year?

Here's a nice infographic of Russia's navy. It has been shrinking every year. They've designed new ships, but they can't afford to build them. They can't afford to build old designs either. For example, they managed to build 3 out of the 10 planned 1X Slava cruisers in the 1970s and 1980s, then ran out of money. The rest of their ships are similarly antiquated, and they can't afford to update or maintain them.

The only thing that I know of the Russian military actually modernizing are their tanks. They've built about 100 T-14s (if you believe them).

Please source that they're growing economically closer to China. That claim is so ridiculous that I don't know how it could be defended.
 

lostngone

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So we should just let it happen and no nothing since they are trying to help trump??? I am sure they are wiser then you on this.
What proof do we have that is it happening(Russian Gov. Hacking)? The U.S. says it's the Russian Government behind it but I haven't seen a single log file or piece of source code or other proof that it is.
[doublepost=1476586586][/doublepost]At this point I more likely to believe that this is just an excuse to install more hardware/software to spy in its own citizens(oops, I meant to say "terrorists").

 
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aaronvan

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Please source this.

So far they haven't been able to afford a single production plane of their Sukhoi PAK FA. They haven't been able to afford to design the PAK-DA bomber, much less produce a prototype. Their cruise missiles are wildly inaccurate; just look at their embarrassing misses and accidents while targeting Syria last year.

The majority of their bombing in Syria has been done by Su-24 Fencers from the 1970s-80s. The Fencers use handheld GPS units for navigation rather than a proper GPS system. They're held in place with rubber bands. Does the modernization that you mention involve updating their Garmin maps every year?

Here's a nice infographic of Russia's navy. It has been shrinking every year. They've designed new ships, but they can't afford to build them. They can't afford to build old designs either. For example, they managed to build 3 out of the 10 planned 1X Slava cruisers in the 1970s and 1980s, then ran out of money. The rest of their ships are similarly antiquated, and they can't afford to update or maintain them.

The only thing that I know of the Russian military actually modernizing are their tanks. They've built about 100 T-14s (if you believe them).

Please source that they're growing economically closer to China. That claim is so ridiculous that I don't know how it could be defended.
Sure, let me do your research for you.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/india-russia-seek-deeper-defense-and-economic-ties-1476538916

http://bruegel.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Heli-Simola-Russia-China-presentation.pdf

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/27/china-trade-relations-russias-pivot-east-has-more-political-substance-than-economic.html
 

Zenithal

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"Cyber War"

The Cold War never really ended, it defrosted, but it was put on the back burner. We've been committing cyber warfare long before Obama took office. I seem to recall a government agency connected to the CSS that infilitrated friendly and axis networks and recorded data, in fact, one of our biggest allies developed illicit software to infiltrate networks. By jove, you've cracked the biggest conspiracy in the world, OP.

This is again one of the very few times I agree with the constantly doting Aaron. Some people on this site will gobble up whatever press they read about Russia. To give you an idea, the Russians do the same with us. When your government's advisors and professors linked with think tanks funded by government bodies or NGOs say something, take it with a grain of salt sometimes.

Let me be crass about it, Russia has never and will never give a damn about what we tell them to do. It wouldn't surprise me if both countries have infiltrated government ranks like they once did a mere 30 years ago.
 
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ChrisWB

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They are rapidly modernizing their military
None of your sources provide any evidence of this.

...and drawing much closer economically and militarily to China
Your sources refute your claim... The Bruegel presentation says that there's potential for them to create closer economic ties, but they're not doing so as of now. The CNBC article says that they're "trading in rhetoric":

But analysts say that Russia's pivot east is more rhetorical and political than economically substantial.
Also, you didn't provide any proof of their military ties to China.
 

thermodynamic

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How does one paint a red line in cyberspace?
Like how Lucy did it in the living room of that TV show but with tape? Or was that one of Peter Brady's antics? Oh well.

And shouldn't it be red, white, and blue?

[doublepost=1476622284][/doublepost]
None of your sources provide any evidence of this.


Your sources refute your claim... The Bruegel presentation says that there's potential for them to create closer economic ties, but they're not doing so as of now. The CNBC article says that they're "trading in rhetoric":



Also, you didn't provide any proof of their military ties to China.
I believe we are all still free to use any search engine that we wish. If they sell the wrong information, it's their fault since it's their job to retrieve accurate information from a search?
[doublepost=1476622413][/doublepost]
"Cyber War"

The Cold War never really ended, it defrosted, but it was put on the back burner. We've been committing cyber warfare long before Obama took office. I seem to recall a government agency connected to the CSS that infilitrated friendly and axis networks and recorded data, in fact, one of our biggest allies developed illicit software to infiltrate networks. By jove, you've cracked the biggest conspiracy in the world, OP.

This is again one of the very few times I agree with the constantly doting Aaron. Some people on this site will gobble up whatever press they read about Russia. To give you an idea, the Russians do the same with us. When your government's advisors and professors linked with think tanks funded by government bodies or NGOs say something, take it with a grain of salt sometimes.

Let me be crass about it, Russia has never and will never give a damn about what we tell them to do. It wouldn't surprise me if both countries have infiltrated government ranks like they once did a mere 30 years ago.

But we're one big global community!

Or so we're told, does modern day events not suggest we're really not?
 
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