Obama votes for Wiretap Immunity...

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Feverish Flux, Jul 9, 2008.

  1. Feverish Flux macrumors regular

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    #1
    Washington Post

    Against gay marriage, for federal wiretapping... The more I get to know about this guy the less likely it is I will vote for him.
     
  2. it5five macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    #2
    He'll be getting all sorts of hell from the left for this, as he should.

    Just once, I'd like to see a real liberal get the nomination for the Democrats instead of the center-right ones we've had the last few times around.

    I'll probably end up voting third party, but it's not as my vote matters anyway since I live in Arizona. There's no way Obama will take this state in November.
     
  3. PlaceofDis macrumors Core

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    #3
    for similar reasons, its crossed my mine to do so as well. i'm in chicago. its not really possible for Obama to lose here, so i might vote third party as well. i'm getting fed up with him pandering and doing stupid things like this.
     
  4. Peace macrumors Core

    Peace

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    #4
    I completely agree. He should vote his speak not his politics. For this reason I too am voting 3rd party.

    He's lost my confidence in him with this move.
     
  5. Dimwhit macrumors 68000

    Dimwhit

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    #6
    :confused: This is the same Obama who name the most liberal in congress? He is anything but near the center.

    Plus, I don't see the big deal. Companies shouldn't be able to be sued when they're doing what the government told them to do. Regardless of which side you fall on the wiretapping issue, it was the government's program. They shouldn't be able to hide behind the Patriot Act and governmental immunity while the Telecoms are left hanging for something they weren't responsible for.
     
  6. PlaceofDis macrumors Core

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    #7
    as its been said many, many times. he is certainly in the center. there are far more liberals senators out there.

    and yes, the telecoms should be held accountable. as should the government.

    this bill is bad in more than just telecom immunity too. it expands the government's ability to wiretap and eavesdrop by reducing the amount of oversight involved. it is an erosion of our civil liberties and giving more power to the government to control everything we see/do/say.
     
  7. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    I think I understand why he voting this way. The telecom companies were told that the wiretapping was legal so they cooperated. It might be unfair to then just turn around and tell them its not and be in big heap of trouble. If anyone should be held accountable it should be the current administration who told the telecom companies that it was legal.
     
  8. Dimwhit macrumors 68000

    Dimwhit

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    #9
    That's pretty much what I was trying to say, and I tend to agree with it.
     
  9. PlaceofDis macrumors Core

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    #10
    that part is debatable. its the rest of the bill thats even worse and scarier. the immunity is just the talking point to cover the rest up.
     
  10. iShater macrumors 604

    iShater

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    #11
    Then why was Quest the only one who had the balls to question and then refuse when they realized it was not legal?
     
  11. Dimwhit macrumors 68000

    Dimwhit

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    #12
    Well, I didn't read the actual bill, but the link article specifically says that the bill tightens oversight on the program, not reduces oversight.
     
  12. it5five macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    #13
    Yeah, named the most liberal in Congress by a conservative magazine that named Kerry the most liberal in 2004.

    There are far more liberal people in Congress. Obama is certainly near the center, and I don't know any left-leaning liberals who are very excited about his nomination. I'd rather have had Kucinich as the nominee.
     
  13. Feverish Flux thread starter macrumors regular

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    #14
    Pretty key sentence from the article, which I should have included:

     
  14. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #15
    Big brother allways wants more, this is more of the same. Our own Govt continues to piss all over what our Constitution stands for. Lets face it Freedom and Liberty is a threat to these control freaks.
     
  15. zioxide macrumors 603

    zioxide

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  16. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

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    #17
    Of course if you write a code book that includes all the terrorist words they look for and use them to relate to innocuous daily chores.

    You can cause the fed to spend an inordinate amount of time and money trying to figure things out.

    Especially if 1 million people are talking that way every day on the phone.
     
  17. Dimwhit macrumors 68000

    Dimwhit

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    #18
    And it's hard to blame Bush and the Republicans for this when the Democrats are voting for it, too. I'm Republican, but I definitely think things have gone way too far. We have a paranoia in this country that has reached stupid levels (reached them a while ago, actually).

    But, let's face it...it's going to take a hell of a lot more than a new President to even begin fixing things. And I doubt either candidate is going to do much more than make things worse.
     
  18. Peace macrumors Core

    Peace

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    #19
    There were no Democrats that even knew about the wiretaps in the beginning since Bush didn't seek legislative approval for it.
    So yes. We can blame bush for it.
     
  19. zioxide macrumors 603

    zioxide

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    #20
    Maybe they should have read the ****ing Constitution.
     
  20. Dimwhit macrumors 68000

    Dimwhit

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    #21
    Well, your Democrats haven't done anything since to stop it (in fact, quite the opposite), so they have as good as approved it. Especially now.
     
  21. Peace macrumors Core

    Peace

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    #22
    First off they are not "my" democrats. I'm a registered independent.

    And secondly saying democrats are now approving it along with republicans doesn't take away the original blame from bush.
     
  22. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #23

    Then I hope you enjoy a Constitution under President McCain, because there will be far less of it.


    Besides, the bill says nothing about criminal charges being brought against the telcos, so President Obama's attorney general can still take their asses to federal court. The telecom immunity is just civil immunity (ie you or me can't sue the telcos)
     
  23. stevento macrumors 6502

    stevento

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    #24
    Didn't he speak out against wire tapping previously?
    let me get this straight... he votes with Bush on one day, then the next day he gets in front of a backdrop that says "CHANGE" and gives a speech about how John McCain is running for Bush's third term?

    he says "i'll bring change" and subsequently he wins the election without popular vote, and then we find out he's full of crap...? eerily bushlike
    see i knew some obama lovers would come to their senses
    may i remind you that its not too late for the party to change this awful decision we are getting ready to make.
     
  24. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #25
    I'm in Arizona too, and at the very least, I'd like to require that McCain spend at least some of his war-chest on defending his own state. Furthermore, while the GOP seems to have a lock on Maricopa county, I think Pima and the surrounding counties may vote Democrat and thus McCain could theoretically lose the state. Clinton was able to get Arizona's electoral votes in 1996, so it's not impossible.

    I've been unsure on the issue of telecom immunity. As someone else mentioned, Qwest refused to participate, but what's not widely known is Qwest may have been punished for this refusal. According to documents unveiled during CEO Joe Nacchio's trial, Qwest was about to receive several government contracts, but these evaporated once Qwest refused to play ball.

    Link.

    With this in mind, the telecom companies not only had a legal mess, but also a financial threat. Without good legal advice each company may have decided it was easier to give the Feds what they wanted. This is at least understandable.

    So, while I find what the telecoms did to be abhorrent, I don't think they're the real perpetrator in this case. The Federal government, and more specifically, those in the administration who ordered such action, are the ones who should be sued.


    With this said, I find the bill to be an utter travesty. Not only did the bill absolve the telecom companies, but it also extended and rewrote many of the terms in FISA, effectively extending the NSA's abilities without adding any kind of review process. The US Senate has effectively capitulated to any kind of checks and balances that would protect our 4th Amendment rights. I'm not going to withdraw my support for Obama, but my vote is coming with increasing reservations about his ability to lead. That McCain voted the same way is Obama's salvation. In this case, both parties are running down the same dangerous path.
     

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