Obama won't take any current Afghanistan war options

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Sky Blue, Nov 11, 2009.

  1. Sky Blue Guest

    Sky Blue

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    #1
    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iqyaFh_efr-brDq0rMLF1hkop0tgD9BTLLB80

    Breaking news right now, sounds like there might be a timetable for withdrawal.

    (I think that's "official" as in an official said it, not it's his official decision)
     
  2. bobber205 macrumors 68020

    bobber205

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    #2
    :eek:
    I was hoping for this all along. Thank you Obama for taking the right course.
     
  3. AP_piano295 macrumors 65816

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    #3
    Ahh some hope for real change has again been awakened in my synical heart.
     
  4. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

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    #4
    Well, timetable for withdrawal only after a period of initial buildup is what it sounds like.
     
  5. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #6
    Fixed.

    Anyway, until I hear the new strategy I'll remain neutral, though I'm glad to hear that he's not going to listen to the people that have part of the WH for years and years.

    Yes the head of the system is changed, but the rest of it is still in place, with the same plans and way of doing things as always.
     
  6. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    #7
    Agreed. It should be interesting to hear what President Obama will come up with.
     
  7. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #8
    We'll see what happens, I would def like to see a withdrawal.
     
  8. KingYaba macrumors 68040

    KingYaba

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    #9
    I'd like to see a checklist.

    #1. List roads need paving.
    -123 Afghan Way (pothole repair)​
    - 4483 Kabul St​
    #2. List power lines that need to be put up.

    #3. List schools that need rebuilding

    I think you get the picture. I want to see what has been accomplished and what needs accomplishing.
     
  9. mgguy macrumors 6502

    mgguy

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  10. AP_piano295 macrumors 65816

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    #11
    Thank you my cynical heart sucks at spelling :eek:
     
  11. toontra macrumors 6502

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    #12
    Good to see people repeat media soundbites like parrots.

    He should "dither" for another 6 months if it results in the right decision. A bit more "dithering" (i.e. deep thought and analysis) by Bush would have served the world well.

    It looks like he is getting sound advice from outside the war machinery US envoy opposed to Afghan surge

    This is not relevant in this case. It's simply not possible to timetable an orderly plan of civic reconstruction. Afghanistan is corrupt to the core at every level of society, as the "elections" only partly revealed. There is zero chance of the current intervention having the intended consequence, therefore some form of withdrawal is the only realistic option. I truly hope Obama comes to the same conclusion.
     
  12. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #13
    Yeah, because Bush/Cheney shoot from the hip strategy worked so well.

    The funny thing is that the dithering was done by our former Presidents, Bush and Cheney. Why did they refuse to send more troops in 2007 and 2008? Surely we didn't need them in Iraq since our mission was accomplished in 2003 according to Bush. :rolleyes:
     
  13. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #14
    Virtually all other countries manage to build infrastructure fairly effectively. I don't see why with some good management (Western or otherwise) they couldn't build some roads, schools and power lines.

    They're building a metro in Delhi (which is one of the worlds most corrupt cities) on time and on budget.
     
  14. toontra macrumors 6502

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    #15
    Delhi isn't an occupied state having the reconstruction foisted upon it. Also it's economy isn't based on opium production. I'm sure there are too many other differences to list.

    Edit: Well, just one more (from Wiki) "Delhi is currently ranked the 7th most expensive office hotspot in the world, with prices at $145.16 per square foot." I suppose Kabul is having a massive surge in retail and commercial development also!
     
  15. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

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    #16
    Your mistaking physical infrastructure with development. Unfortunately, making sustainable, meaningful improvements is never as simple as # of roads paved and # of people trained. The proof is in the results, not the inputs. Who cares how many schools have four walls and teachers are trained? What matters is what and how much students are learning. Who cares how many power lines there are or roads paved? What matters is the growth of a real and legitimate economy.

    So on and so on.
     
  16. NC MacGuy macrumors 603

    NC MacGuy

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    #17
    His inexperience is showing, again.:rolleyes:
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29898698

    March 27, 2009:
     
  17. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #18
    I'd rather have this than Bush's inexperience. Look where that got us.
     
  18. NC MacGuy macrumors 603

    NC MacGuy

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    #19
    They both suck.

    Just the level of suckiness I guess.
     
  19. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    #20
    The big difference between Delhi and Kabul (and really, it's somewhat silly to even be beginning a statement with a phrase like that) is that Kabul is the nominal capital of a "nation" that has no stake in civilization. Over the past several millenia numerous ancient and modern world powers have tried to create both ancient and modern concepts of civilization in Afghanistan and none of them show significant evidence of success. There was no past time to harken to when one looks at Afghanistan and talk about its shining national civilization and stable governance of any kind. This makes the situation different from postwar Tokyo or Seoul or even Beijing, and certainly also different from Delhi, where civilization has existed in varying degrees for millenia.

    It's not the fact that there's corruption in Kabul that's the primary problem. That's a symptom of the problem. There is corruption in Kabul to the degree that there is because the number of Afghanis who have put a real stake in forming the kind of national structure that we would recognize as modern civilization is minimal at best, and has been throughout the numerous occupations they have endured.

    Let them alone, let them figure out who they want to be.
     
  20. Shivetya macrumors 65816

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    #21
    It took Bush a few years to get us into a mess, Obama has done far worse faster. He seems more intent on "not being Bush" than "being President"
     
  21. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #22
    I completely agree with that sentiment. However....

    Are we willing to sit back for decades and passively observe the decimation of the minority populations of Afghanistan simply so that we can say, "It's best if they sort it out for themselves."

    Is it ok that they destroy more giant and priceless buddhas?

    I don't have an answer but allowing the Taliban free reign is pointless.
     
  22. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #23
    What?

    Can you please explain this statement?
     
  23. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    #24
    I think that's a really fair question -- I don't deny that the Taliban committed atrocities and most likely will go back to committing them in our absence (or should I they are in process thereof now, since they are embedded in, what, 80% of Afghanistan?)

    I see three major options with situations like Afghanistan:

    1) Let nature take its course -- recognizing that monstrous people rape, murder, and pillage the world over -- and recognize that the kind of self-rule the Afghanis develop may or may not be to our liking and will probably be realized (much like our own governance here in the US) over many years and with the loss of many lives. Focus instead on minimizing harm to the outside world by preventing any outflow of terrorists or jihadists and inflow of advanced weapons.

    2) Arrange a truly long term occupation and spend 50-100 years or more trying to develop a nation out of Afghanistan by baby steps that would amount to neocolonialism.

    3) Establish some kind of peace-keeping force that has extremely limited responsibilities (I'm really even less sure of this approach providing a lot of long-term benefit).

    I agree that they're all problematic, but I think they're more consistent with reality than the options being discussed today.
     
  24. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #25
    I'll take option 1 and use the money saved to increase our own nations security.
     

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