Obamacare’s Unpopularity Rises Among Uninsured

Technarchy

macrumors 604
Original poster
May 21, 2012
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There are a couple of issues with Obamacare that don't really address the uninsured other than threatening them with a penalty is they don't get some form of insurance.

1. Healthcare is expensive. Helping with the premium gets your foot in the door, but deductibles, co-pays and max out of pockets haven't really changed and can still easily break a your average household earning $40k a year.

2. If you pass on your employers horrible health plan because it may have a $10,000 deductible, Obamacare may not help you at all if your company offers the "minimum standard" which will be a Hobson's Choice for the uninsured.

3. Getting signed up for a Obamacare is a massive PITA for enough of the uninsured where they just give up. It took me 4 months to finally be able to see what I qualified for.

As I've said before, healthcare is not just preventive care and antibiotics. This just further illustrates why the USA should have UHC.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/369917/obamacares-unpopularity-rises-among-uninsured-andrew-johnson

As the deadline for 2014 enrollment nears, Obamacare is increasingly growing unpopular, especially among the uninsured. A new Kaiser Family Foundation survey finds that about twice as many uninsured people have an unfavorable view of the health-care law than have a favorable one.

Among the uninsured, 47 percent view Obamacare in a negative light versus the 24 percent who view it favorably. That’s a change from 43 percent who viewed it unfavorably last month, and 36 percent who viewed it favorably. Overall, half of Americans view Obamacare unfavorably, while just over one-third have a positive take on the law. ​

More of the uninsured also said Obamacare made them worse off (39 percent) than improved their situation (26 percent), according to the poll.
 

Moyank24

macrumors 601
Aug 31, 2009
4,334
2,421
in a New York State of mind
Maybe I'm simplifying it too much, but it seems kind of obvious that those who don't have healthcare now would be upset that they now have to spend the money.

I, too, believe that we should have a UHC, though. However, I can't imagine how many fights and how long it would take to get something like that passed.

But, until then, we have to work with the system in place. At the end of the day, how many uninsured people end up at hospitals? And who ends up paying for them?
 

VulchR

macrumors 68020
Jun 8, 2009
2,329
10,248
Scotland
I believe that the US health care system is charging more than the society can sustain, and that eventually this will lead to a crash, inevitably evoking comparisons with other countries. Once that is done in a serious way, it will become obvious that UHC with the option of additional private health care is the way to go. Also, there will be a generation of Americans who will watch their baby-boomer parents go through the US health care meat grinder. That will change opinions real fast. Those who oppose UHC in the US do not have sustained direct experience with the US health care system in my experience, so they are vulnerable to hyperbole about the strengths of the US system and the weaknesses of UHC.

Mark my words: one day there will be a sudden realisation about what has happened in the US in regard to health care, and the anger against those responsible will make the public reaction to the banking fiasco look like a minor blip. The banking fiasco hit people's wallets, the health care fiasco will hit their loved ones. Even big business will realise that it is better to have healthy staff, and to have the government provide basic health care.
 

Technarchy

macrumors 604
Original poster
May 21, 2012
6,747
4,885
Wait till they get penalized on their taxes.
I think it's safe to say that most people have no idea there is a tax penalty.

Once they realize, especially the young between 20 and 30, there will be a huge amount of backlash and bigger outcry for UHC.
 

zioxide

macrumors 603
Dec 11, 2006
5,725
3,711
I'm glad people are finally starting to realize how trash the US healthcare system actually is.

If the best thing about Obamacare is it causes us to finally blow this **** up an start over with a real UHC system then it's a good thing. On top of that, people no longer being denied due to pre-existing conditions is a good thing too.


That said, still waiting for people on the right to offer some SOLUTION to the healthcare mess instead of just trumpeting the party "REPEAL OBAMACARE!!!11!1" line. What we had before was even worse. Maybe we'd get somewhere and actually fix this mess if the people in charge cared about finding a real solution instead of just whining to repeal the ACA and go back to the old broken status quo.
 

Technarchy

macrumors 604
Original poster
May 21, 2012
6,747
4,885
I'm glad people are finally starting to realize how trash the US healthcare system actually is.

If the best thing about Obamacare is it causes us to finally blow this **** up an start over with a real UHC system then it's a good thing. On top of that, people no longer being denied due to pre-existing conditions is a good thing too.


That said, still waiting for people on the right to offer some SOLUTION to the healthcare mess instead of just trumpeting the party "REPEAL OBAMACARE!!!11!1" line. What we had before was even worse. Maybe we'd get somewhere and actually fix this mess if the people in charge cared about finding a real solution instead of just whining to repeal the ACA and go back to the old broken status quo.
The whole defund and repeal Obamcacare movement needs to stop.

Do either and then what? Return to the good old days of Insurance bad faith or not being able to get insurance at all because of pre-existing conditions.

Think about that for a moment. You have a bad heart and need healthcare, but can't get healthcare because you have a bad heart...The GOP needs to get off that train.

Ted Cruz is a moron for evening forcing us down that road, but at the same time something has to change because in 2015 the insurance companies will raise their premiums and reduce their coverage. Obamacare or not, there will be a healthcare crisis until the USA adopts UHC.
 

Zombie Acorn

macrumors 65816
Feb 2, 2009
1,301
9,062
Toronto, Ontario
There really arent too many things that are more fundamental than health and education. If your government is screwing you over in both of those arenas its probably time to elect a new one.

----------

I think it's safe to say that most people have no idea there is a tax penalty.

Once they realize, especially the young between 20 and 30, there will be a huge amount of backlash and bigger outcry for UHC.
They'll know when they go to get their taxes done this year and come out owing instead of having a couple hundred in their pocket ;)

The democrats made jokes about the 600 dollar stimulus credit, just wait until they try to rake back 200 on Joe blow.
 

citizenzen

macrumors 65816
Mar 22, 2010
1,433
11,628
This just further illustrates why the USA should have UHC.
Since you've admitted you won't vote for candidates who actually will back this, it seems like a disingenuous act to call for it.

If you want it, vote for candidates who will champion it.

Otherwise, it must not be that important to you.
 

SLC Flyfishing

Suspended
Nov 19, 2007
1,486
1,639
Portland, OR
Since you've admitted you won't vote for candidates who actually will back this, it seems like a disingenuous act to call for it.

If you want it, vote for candidates who will champion it.

Otherwise, it must not be that important to you.
Sometimes the candidates who will back one thing are so far off on other things that you can't bring yourself to vote.
 

citizenzen

macrumors 65816
Mar 22, 2010
1,433
11,628
Sometimes the candidates who will back one thing are so far off on other things that you can't bring yourself to vote.
Then, as I said, it must not be that important.

I imagine you'd have the same reaction if I said that small government was a priority.

Yet, I kept voting for Democrats.
 

SLC Flyfishing

Suspended
Nov 19, 2007
1,486
1,639
Portland, OR
Then, as I said, it must not be that important.

I imagine you'd have the same reaction if I said that small government was a priority.

Yet, I kept voting for Democrats.
Well it's very important for me, but you are right; not important enough for me to vote for a political party that does some of the things democrats do.
 

MrWillie

macrumors 65816
Apr 29, 2010
1,338
275
Starlite Starbrite Trailer Court
There are a couple of issues with Obamacare that don't really address the uninsured other than threatening them with a penalty is they don't get some form of insurance.

1. Healthcare is expensive. Helping with the premium gets your foot in the door, but deductibles, co-pays and max out of pockets haven't really changed and can still easily break a your average household earning $40k a year.

2. If you pass on your employers horrible health plan because it may have a $10,000 deductible, Obamacare may not help you at all if your company offers the "minimum standard" which will be a Hobson's Choice for the uninsured.

3. Getting signed up for a Obamacare is a massive PITA for enough of the uninsured where they just give up. It took me 4 months to finally be able to see what I qualified for.

As I've said before, healthcare is not just preventive care and antibiotics. This just further illustrates why the USA should have UHC.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/369917/obamacares-unpopularity-rises-among-uninsured-andrew-johnson
The whole defund and repeal Obamcacare movement needs to stop.

Do either and then what? Return to the good old days of Insurance bad faith or not being able to get insurance at all because of pre-existing conditions.

Think about that for a moment. You have a bad heart and need healthcare, but can't get healthcare because you have a bad heart...The GOP needs to get off that train.

Ted Cruz is a moron for evening forcing us down that road, but at the same time something has to change because in 2015 the insurance companies will raise their premiums and reduce their coverage. Obamacare or not, there will be a healthcare crisis until the USA adopts UHC.
Does your employer not offer a healthcare plan ?

1) Are you for or against "Obama Care" ? (I refuse to call it Affordable Heath Care. At my office, the rates went up, deductibles went up, copayment went up. All starting 1 Jan 2014. :rolleyes: )

2) You live a life and have no major heath issues. You therefore go 20+ years without insurance. Then all of a sudden you need an $80,000 or so heart operation. So you come to me and expect to give me a $500 premium and demand I pay for your surgery ? Fat chance. Yes, there are some cases where people, through no choice of their own end up without insurance for more than 45 days and then end up with a preexisting condition. (Cobra can be expensive) But can't we fix it for those that put forth the effort ?

3) The most I've seen is a $3000 deductible. The rates were a bargain. I took it. That was about 15 years ago. BTW a $10,000 deductible with a very low monthly payment is a good deal. You pay the day to day stuff (individual responsibility) and you're protected from catastrophic events.

4) Yes, the repeal Obama Care movement needs to stop. Hopefully when it's successful.
 

SoAnyway

macrumors 6502
May 10, 2011
476
179
If this is the case, we should have gotten something more progressive like single payer or a true UHC system like the rest of the OECD nations.

If anyone choses to be uninsured and would rather pay the penalty than get health insurance, it's what, $95 they have to pay out of their tax refund? Otherwise, their option is to log into healthcare.gov and see what their options are in their state.

Here's a better question, what do the polls look like for those who are benefiting from the Affordable Care Act?
 

Technarchy

macrumors 604
Original poster
May 21, 2012
6,747
4,885
Since you've admitted you won't vote for candidates who actually will back this, it seems like a disingenuous act to call for it.

If you want it, vote for candidates who will champion it.

Otherwise, it must not be that important to you.
Faulty absolutist logic. You'd vote for David Duke for the sake of getting UHC? Or do you have other issues or a moral compass that prevent you from being so myopic?

Nothing is ever so clean cut, and I am not a single issue voter, or one that tows a party line.
 

citizenzen

macrumors 65816
Mar 22, 2010
1,433
11,628
Faulty absolutist logic. You'd vote for David Duke for the sake of getting UHC?
Of course not. I vote for politicians that share overall visions of where to take the country. The progressive political philosophy embraces society and takes steps to see that all of society is included and protected. So it's easy for me to back a progressive candidate [or at least a Democrat] because there are few, if any policies they support that I can't at least live with.

How you reconcile that with Republicans is your business.

Point out the policy plank that Democrats have that I am diametrically opposed to and I'll say you have a point. But it doesn't exist. I don't have to support a party or candidate that I disagree with as much as you disagree with Republicans.

That's something that you have to deal with.
 

Bug-Creator

macrumors 6502a
May 30, 2011
549
2,129
Germany
2) You live a life and have no major heath issues. You therefore go 20+ years without insurance. Then all of a sudden you need an $80,000 or so heart operation. So you come to me and expect to give me a $500 premium and demand I pay for your surgery ? .
Huh ? Thought the whole point of the ACA was preventing people going uninsured....

Sure you will have such case when you start it now, but thats more a failing of the past system than ACA.
 

Zombie Acorn

macrumors 65816
Feb 2, 2009
1,301
9,062
Toronto, Ontario
If this is the case, we should have gotten something more progressive like single payer or a true UHC system like the rest of the OECD nations.

If anyone choses to be uninsured and would rather pay the penalty than get health insurance, it's what, $95 they have to pay out of their tax refund? Otherwise, their option is to log into healthcare.gov and see what their options are in their state.

Here's a better question, what do the polls look like for those who are benefiting from the Affordable Care Act?
Its 95 in 2014 if you are poor and don't have kids, once you start making a bit more and have kids it can shoot up to a few hundred dollars pretty quickly.
 

citizenzen

macrumors 65816
Mar 22, 2010
1,433
11,628
Its 95 in 2014 if you are poor and don't have kids, once you start making a bit more and have kids it can shoot up to a few hundred dollars pretty quickly.
So buy insurance.

With Obamacare, the poor have to buy insurance, taking money out of their pocket.

With Universal Healthcare, the poor have to pay more taxes, taking money out of their pocket.

What's the difference here?
 

Huntn

macrumors demi-god
May 5, 2008
17,036
16,503
The Misty Mountains
I believe that the US health care system is charging more than the society can sustain, and that eventually this will lead to a crash, inevitably evoking comparisons with other countries. Once that is done in a serious way, it will become obvious that UHC with the option of additional private health care is the way to go. Also, there will be a generation of Americans who will watch their baby-boomer parents go through the US health care meat grinder. That will change opinions real fast. Those who oppose UHC in the US do not have sustained direct experience with the US health care system in my experience, so they are vulnerable to hyperbole about the strengths of the US system and the weaknesses of UHC.

Mark my words: one day there will be a sudden realisation about what has happened in the US in regard to health care, and the anger against those responsible will make the public reaction to the banking fiasco look like a minor blip. The banking fiasco hit people's wallets, the health care fiasco will hit their loved ones. Even big business will realise that it is better to have healthy staff, and to have the government provide basic health care.
I agree with this. I am open to the concept of UHC. As I've said many times in this forum, a doctor charging $18000 for 45 minutes work is just not reasonable, I don't care what they are doing. And I have similar feelings about CEOs. You can be the best darn manager/leader of your company and should not be making more than 1-2 million a year.

In certain corners of the economy, excesses are running wild in the U.S. and while a select few suck up most of the wealth, not only does that sector begrudge sharing, the majority are struggling. First there is the acknowledgment, then there is the discussion about what to do about it. The excesses at both ends of the spectrum must be curbed and I too am convinced nothing will change until there is a crash.
 

VulchR

macrumors 68020
Jun 8, 2009
2,329
10,248
Scotland
So buy insurance.

With Obamacare, the poor have to buy insurance, taking money out of their pocket.

With Universal Healthcare, the poor have to pay more taxes, taking money out of their pocket.

What's the difference here?
I'm sorry but the poor do not 'have to' pay more taxes for UHC, and no doubt you know this. UHC can be paid by taxes without inequitably disadvantaging the poor - one simply adopts taxation according to wealth (that's wealth, not income), letting the poor pay little tax and taxing the rich according to their ability to pay.

IMO this option is much better than what the US electorate seem to favour now: covering their ears to the cries of people who suffer or are made bankrupt due to health 'care' and going 'la-la-la'.
 

citizenzen

macrumors 65816
Mar 22, 2010
1,433
11,628
I'm sorry but the poor do not 'have to' pay more taxes for UHC, and no doubt you know this.
I assure you I don't know this.

I'm assuming that a program like this would increase everyone's tax liability to one degree or another.
 

lannister80

macrumors 6502
Apr 7, 2009
476
17
Chicagoland
At my office, the rates went up, deductibles went up, copayment went up. All starting 1 Jan 2014. :rolleyes: )
Yeah, they haven't been doing that every year for the last 15 years....oh wait. :rolleyes:

2) You live a life and have no major heath issues. You therefore go 20+ years without insurance. Then all of a sudden you need an $80,000 or so heart operation. So you come to me and expect to give me a $500 premium and demand I pay for your surgery ? Fat chance.
That's why there are open enrollment periods, and you can't enroll at other times of the year. To prevent people from signing up for insurance only after they get sick (unless they can wait up to 9 or 10 months for the next open enrollment season to come around).

Yes, there are some cases where people, through no choice of their own end up without insurance for more than 45 days and then end up with a preexisting condition. (Cobra can be expensive) But can't we fix it for those that put forth the effort ?
No one needs COBRA anymore, I don't think. If you lose your health insurance through your job, that counts as a "qualifying event" that would let you sign up for insurance through the exchange at any time of year. This assumes, of course, that exchange insurance is cheaper than COBRA.

Also, pre-existing conditions are a thing of the past. Gaps in insurance coverage no longer matter/change what you pay for insurance.

3) The most I've seen is a $3000 deductible. The rates were a bargain. I took it. That was about 15 years ago.
Yes, when healthcare was a lot cheaper. Duh.

4) Yes, the repeal Obama Care movement needs to stop. Hopefully when it's successful.
Hooray for the old, horrible status quo! :rolleyes:
 

NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
12,141
13,986
I assure you I don't know this.

I'm assuming that a program like this would increase everyone's tax liability to one degree or another.
UHC is carried out as a progressive tax in most of the world.

Private health insurance is as regressive as it gets, essentially a leech industry in place only because there are profits that can be made, at the expense of societal wellbeing.


Health issues should never be left to a "free market" as the entire model of free market capitalism is to extract as much profit as possible while reducing costs as much as possible. In healthcare costs = services, no two ways around it.