Obamanomics

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Wotan31, Jul 6, 2009.

  1. Wotan31 macrumors 6502

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    #1
    Yes, Obamanomics. Specifically, the rather controversial (and suggestively named :D ) "Stimulus Package".

    So one of Obama's selling points months ago, for pushing this stimulus package through so quickly, was unemployment. Specifically, that unemployment was nearly 8% at the time, and he rather ominously stated that if Congress doesn't approve this stimulus package, that unemployment would rise further, maybe even reaching 9%. As we well know, unemployment is closing in on 10% now - quite a lot more than Obama's "if you don't approve this" selling point prediction.

    Secondly, Obama said it would be "weeks to months" before the positive effects of this stimulus package could be seen. It has now been "months", yet no tangible improvement can be seen.

    Obama promised no new taxes - income, capital gains, etc. - NONE at all - for households earning less than $250k per year. I.e. the "Middle Class". That promise has already been broken.

    Obama promised to allow people to make early withdrawals from 401k plans, free of any penalties. This was conveniently omitted from the approved stimulus bill. As was the tax benefits for seniors and small business owners that he promised.

    Lets not forget that the US is the most in-debt nation in the world, and Obama's solution to this crisis is to *triple* that debt amount? That alone should beg a huge "WTF?" from anyone with half a brain.

    Since even before the day Obama took office, economists have been warning that this economic situation could end up being worse than the Great Depression. And yet we have Joe Biden admitting now that this administration has "underestimated" the situation! Um... understatement of the decade perhaps?

    My question to you, is at what point to we give Obama's plan a great big FAIL? Because that's what it's looking like more and more each day. And all of us are the ones who are quite literally "paying" the consequences. :mad:
     
  2. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #2
    Which whacked out wingnut have you been listening to?

    You better limit your daily intake of hate and misinformation or your blood pressure is going to go through the roof.
     
  3. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #3
    How much of the stimulus has even been spent? The recovery site shows somewhere around $50B being spent. I am not a believer in stimulus plans like this one, but I would at least expect the money to be allocated a little quicker, especially since its rallying call was to stop unemployment by having us build "infrastructure" and we were told there were plenty of "shovel ready" jobs waiting to get started.
     
  4. Wotan31 thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #4
    LMAO! :D Thanks for the laughs, but sticking your head in the sand isn't going to make this problem go away.

    Don't worry, I'd feel pretty let down too, if I was one of those people who voted him into office.
     
  5. erickkoch macrumors 6502a

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    #5
    I don't think it's going to be that simple. It's just like The Great Depression. Many credit FDR's policy's with getting us out, other economists say that government programs prolonged it and made it worse (austrian economics), and yet others credit WWII with ending it.

    Whatever happens, even if his policies fail he will simply say that, "things would have been worse if we didn't do this or that." Some economists will agree and some won't. Final judgement will be made Nov '12.
     
  6. Wotan31 thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #6
    Unemployment was indeed its rallying call, and on that point it has completely failed to deliver.

    Anyone else notice how these Auto exec's awarded themselves LARGE bonuses, just after receiving the stimulus money, but just before declaring bankruptcy? And yet no one is calling them out on this blatant misuse of taxpayer dollars? Just another bullet point on the FAIL list for this stimulus bill.
     
  7. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #7
    We must also keep in mind though that we still have it pretty good. I have talked to my great grandma who lived up and through the depression (she is 100 now). From her stories we haven't seen anything like it, in fact booming times were probably worse than our generation has seen from the stories I have heard.
     
  8. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #8
    Wotan - I won't pretend to be an expert in the relevant matters, but I don't think that anything this large and complicated (economy) turns on a dime and/or is immediately susceptible to political decisions/policy.

    Obama has been President for five months. The stimulus package (at least the one under his administration) is not even that old. Money hasn't even been allocated yet.

    So I think it is too soon to judge by far. Maybe next year, or even 2011. Economic trends take time to be influenced by any factor. Economic decisions by Carter weren't felt till Reagan - Reagan's not until GHWB - GHWB not till Clinton.

    If things are moving too slow for you, by all means blame the bureaucracy, or the lobbyists, or the Congress - but even then you'd like the process for doling out that some of money to take longer than shorter - if only for the hope of wise deliberation.

    Obama has in some ways been a disappointment - but it's a difficult time. Also, the Democrats are hardly helping - they are a much bigger disappointment.

    I heard the opinion the other day that the Democrats are now the new Republicans - and that the Republican Party has just gone insane.

    Such is the state of modern politics.
     
  9. bobber205 macrumors 68020

    bobber205

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    #9
    :rolleyes:
    Tons of people have. Just look for it.
     
  10. luminosity macrumors 65816

    luminosity

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    #10
    I predicted many months ago that unemployment would peak at about 10.5-11%. Looks like we're still headed that way.

    A basic understanding of economics is always helpful: The unemployment rate is a lagging indicator, and one of the last things to show improvement, even if an economy is well into a recovery, just as it's unwise to look at the unemployment rate to determine whether there's a recession or not.
     
  11. designgeek macrumors 65816

    designgeek

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    #11
    Exactly!

    @OP: Fox News is not a great place to get ALL of your news and I know that's where the term "Obamanomics" started. Many economists have suggested that the Stimulus Package is not spending enough. Of course we have only spent some 10% (last I heard) and we're still going but we'll see in the coming months. What's very important is to NOT repeat the same mistakes the Hoover administration made. Sen. John Boehner (R-OH) has suggested a spending freeze but that would plunge the economy into depression and nobody wants that.
     
  12. mgguy macrumors 6502

    mgguy

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    #12
    We still have massive government spending on universal health care to look forward to. That should help get the economy moving again. :rolleyes:
     
  13. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #13
    The last figure I saw was ~10%. I'm really not sure what the primary holdup is, although I have some ideas.

    In the short-term, I don't expect a revised health care plan to help the economy, but a good plan has the potential to make our companies and workers more agile in the future.
    I'm still not sure about the current plans moving through Congress, but our current system needs a vast overhaul; it's a hidden cost that is hurting our ability to compete in the world marketplace.
     
  14. designgeek macrumors 65816

    designgeek

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    #14
    I'm a huge fan of this sentence. I'm hoping that the plan will make the corporations more competitive mostly because I'm about four months away from not having health insurance and I can't afford it on my own.

    Plans moving through Congress typically are measured in geologic time. Even with the "Super Majority" I think the Dems will fail to accomplish much (I'm a liberal but don't much like the dems btw.). I totally with you on the hidden cost thing, it's really holding us back. I think it's crazy that in the most powerful country in the world still uses such a crappy healthcare system.
     
  15. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #15
    There was an interesting article in the NYT about how France's centralized government has proved to be way more efficient in stimulating the economy. Also, a lot of their stimulus money is going to refurbish their patrimony. Way too much of ours is going to build new highways...

    I agree with you that much of America's lack of competitive muscle is due to outrageous capitalist health care premiums. The health care industry has gotten way too much corporate welfare.
     
  16. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #16
    I think it's illustrative that both Walmart and GM have both supported some version of universal health care. The current system gives a pseudo-monopoly to a few companies with a severe barrier to entry for newer entities, costs the GDP of several smaller, but prosperous countries and fails at several metrics for success. Employers don't like it, employees don't like it and I'd argue that this system, reliant on the early-20th century model of employee and employer will ultimately make workers hesitate to move from company to company as they see fit.

    I've had the experience of being a freelancer, working for the government, and working for a company and I can say that being a freelancer was great, but the cost for my health insurance was crippling. And, since I've moved quickly from job to job, I often was between coverage and I ended up paying out of pocket.

    I'll look for the NYT article.
     
  17. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    I think it would be wrong to exempt employers from contributing to the cost. Employers really shouldn't have anything to do with the administration of their employees' health care. But, they should be contributing financially. I like the idea of 50% employee, 50% employer contributions. That would lessen the tax burden on everyone, free business from having to administer health care and spread the cost more evenly in society. I'm leery of singly payer. The insurance companies have proved that it's dangerous to let one entity have total control.


    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/07/business/global/07stimulus.html?partner=rss&emc=rss
     
  18. Silencio macrumors 68020

    Silencio

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    #18
    What a great way to stimulate civilized conversation. :rolleyes:
     
  19. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #19
    From what I have seen the health changes would just be a shift that taxes would have to support. Companies will probably dump their employees on a default public plan and then end up paying for it on the backside anyways through raised taxes.
     
  20. Shivetya macrumors 65816

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    #20
    So how many excuses do we need to come up with?


    The only shovel ready project is Michael Jackson
     
  21. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #21
    I would probably be a better person if I hadn't just busted out laughing at that last line. :eek:
     
  22. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #22
    I would welcome facts and logic from a conservative. Unfortunately- they don't know the definition of either.
     
  23. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #23
    Hmm...did you call out the bank executives when they took our cash? Just wondering. I called out both.
     
  24. Shivetya macrumors 65816

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  25. zioxide macrumors 603

    zioxide

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    #25
    Dude, it takes at least 2 years for most economic policy changes to actually have an effect. Have some ****ing patience and stop saying everything is a failure after only a few months.
     

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