Obama's Failures Toward the Chinese Come to Light


macrumors 6502a
Aug 30, 2015
Long Beach, California
Well, yeah, as much as it is for any other leader in any other discussion to ever be had. Let's say, under Trump's leadership (or whoever just using him here because current) bad thing xyz happens at ABC federal agency. Does the buck stop with him, or is he "not responsible" ?
In Trump's case, he's the one being investigated by the "ABC federal agency". :D


macrumors regular
Mar 27, 2016
Ring of Fire
You guys do realize these "CIA operatives" were mostly Chinese informants right ?
Yup, that's how it works, in my limited understanding. The CIA officer, covered by diplomatic immunity, recruits local spies. If an American citizen, not covered by diplomatic immunity, had been arrested, we may have been entertained by the show trial, unless he or she was swapped.


macrumors 6502a
May 30, 2011
In the long run all spy rings are uncovered.
The only question is wether they get retracted before or afterwards (or just left behind).

It is no suprise that China would use such harsh measure on caught spies, so the blame should be placed with those recruiting not preparing for such an event.


macrumors regular
Dec 11, 2016
Even if that was the case, that doesn't make the loss Obama's fault; it could have happened at any time.
It happened before, during or after Obama's presidency. So it makes for a good thread title, nothing strange with that.


macrumors 603
Aug 5, 2004
Catskill Mountains
To me this is classic case of a mole inside the CIA! :mad:
Absolutely. I would suppose the CIA and FBI to have put that very high on the list too. The Times piece certainly read as if they went there and came back maybe not entirely convinced they were wrong about some of what they found. And we don't know what they've learned that we didn't read in that piece either.

In particular we don't know, again, why this NYT piece was released now, whether its appearance had anything to do with recent resignations inside our agencies, or some little piece of info our agencies recently turned up --and are not disclosing-- that made them think that for whatever reason they wouldn't mind if the Times did run a piece about that network's demise. Not to suggest that their request for an embargo has been what has kept us from reading it sooner. If that's not the case though, we can still wonder what made the Times think now's the right time to print the thing.

Why does a rose bloom on a particular morning.

But "classic" mole situations aside, technological advances by the human race keep upping the ante for everyone. Tech innovations give an ever better leg up to both automated and human collection of intel. Put that with the fact that China, like India, is known for having extensive boots on home turf surveillance capability and it's possible China managed to upend that crew unassisted by deliberate efforts on this side. Turncoat informant always possible. Even if she's intentionally isolated by our side to begin with, she knows at least one thing about contact with that network. Once the other side knows two things they're on their way to finding out what kind of polygon or matrix they got going there.
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