Of Gates and Jobs

arn

macrumors god
Original poster
Staff member
Apr 9, 2001
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nubneck wrote in with this:

This week, popular technology writer, Robert Cringely devoted his column to the new iMac and Apple\'s longevity: Why the New iMacs Will Be Successful No Matter What They Look Like

Which provides an interesting look into this writer's opinion of Jobs outlook on life, as well as some reasoning why Apple will continue to thrive.
 

eyelikeart

Moderator emeritus
Jan 2, 2001
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Metairie, LA
nice story

I think it paints a pretty acurate picture of the Steve Jobs that we all, as Mac enthusiasts, have grown to know, love & hate. It definitely decorates the rivalry between the two without diving into the depths of their history together.
 

mischief

macrumors 68030
Aug 1, 2001
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Santa Cruz Ca
What a doofus.

This guy is acting more from being snubbed than doing research. This is a 50 year chess game. The prize at stake? For Steve Jobs: its Being the person who goes down in History as the one who made global conciousness happen.
For Bill Gates: it's dying with "more money than God". Or, if you like Froyd it's winning the approval of Bill Gates II, his Dad.
 

eric_n_dfw

macrumors 68000
Jan 2, 2002
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DFW, TX, USA
Re: What a doofus.

Originally posted by mischief
This guy is acting more from being snubbed than doing research.
Maybe, but ask yourself, "Why should Jobs do the interview in the first place?"
I mean, what's in it for him? Forwarding any kind of animosity towards Gates or MicroSoft does him (or Apple) very little good as it would probably come off as whining, or even admitting Gates had beat him. (Not that I think he has!)
 
W

wake_up

Guest
Great article!!!

And i think he is right about Cringely's First Law, about consumers not willing to be 2 generations beyond the latest greatest.
Except i don't think i'll fall in that category being next to my 8500 PPC.
I think i'll have to stop spending on food and other exorbitant luxurities,
cause i really, really really want that new new iMac.
 

eyelikeart

Moderator emeritus
Jan 2, 2001
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Metairie, LA
Re: Re: What a doofus.

Originally posted by eric_n_dfw

Maybe, but ask yourself, "Why should Jobs do the interview in the first place?"
I mean, what's in it for him? Forwarding any kind of animosity towards Gates or MicroSoft does him (or Apple) very little good as it would probably come off as whining, or even admitting Gates had beat him. (Not that I think he has!)
it could have looked like a sign of weakness on Jobs' part...
 

madamimadam

macrumors 65816
Jan 3, 2002
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Originally posted by wake_up
Except i don't think i'll fall in that category being next to my 8500 PPC.
I think i'll have to stop spending on food and other exorbitant luxurities,
cause i really, really really want that new new iMac.
I must say, I would not upgrade if it were not for:
a) render time; and
b) the "OH MY GOD, I HAVE to have one" factor.

Outside of that, if I were a regular user of word, I would survive without...... at least until Jobs forced me to act of problem b again
LOL
 

sprescott1974

macrumors member
Jan 4, 2002
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what is really interesting...

is the last paragraph of the article. no matter how hard gates pushes windoze on the world, turn on any movie or tv show and people are always using macs. why? because macs are inherintly (sp?) cooler. from the design of the case to whats on their screens macs have always been and will always be cooler then wintel machines. a good analogy, my band may never make as much money as maybe an n*sync or britney spears (not that my music is anythign liek theirs) but my band will always be cooler because we have integrity and get respect. 2 things that m$ is severely lacking.
 

mcbane

macrumors member
Jan 4, 2002
48
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i dont think your band is cool... jk
I thought the article was funny though. AS long as apple keeps making good computers and all major devs support them I'll be happy, I don't give a rats ass about what everybody around me uses.
 

SPG

macrumors 65816
Jul 24, 2001
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In the shadow of the Space Needle.
It wasn't really that interesting a premise...Jobs and Gates as little kids in the sandbox. Warhol said it best when he said that all reviews and interviews were preordained and the critics had their positions before ever seein gthe work or talking to the artist.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
i was hoping that steve was in our court

i mean lookin' out for the mac user, not so motivated by personal agendas. i guess i have to admit that was naive of me. still, wouldn't it be nice if someone at apple were interested in playing the MHz game? even if they can't 'win' there are a lot of us who would rather have 1gigihertz G5s (or even a 1GHz G4!) right now than the baked alaska iMac. i know, i know: slow processors are all motorola's fault and apple's just working with what they can get. that's a stretch. if steve really always gets what he wants and he wanted faster macs we'd have them.
 

sparkleytone

macrumors 68020
Oct 28, 2001
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Greensboro, NC
SPG i like you again.

Anyways, this was for me a pretty interesting subject for an article, but by then end it had left a taste that was all too forgettable. You could say this is due to Job's "snub" but I think its more due to the writer's own hurt pride.

If you think about the timeframe, Jobs' excuse was all too poignant. Why throw fuel to the fire when you can sit back and (he hoped) watch Gates dance on hot coals. Yeah, maybe Steve wanted to snub ol' Bill but hey, its the little things in life that most people enjoy, a thing Gates just refuses to get.

It's pretty damn funny to see the richest man in the world doing a preliminary interview whose subject is his prime competitor, and then that competitor decides that article won't ever be done.

Anyways the writer did touch on something rather thought-provoking. Steve Jobs may not win any battles, but as far as he's concerned, he won the war long ago and revels in that everyday.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Bob's missing one big point: us

I bought my new iMac on monday because it offers substance and style available nowhere else. I also own and use a Cube at work (same deal). I also own a 1-month old iBook (same deal). I cannot find anything made by another computer maker that comes close to the standard Apple sets, and until I do, will remain a Mac hardware loyalist. I have not found another operating system that comes close to the standards OS 9.2 and OS X set, and ditto the above statement. I have not a found a software program available only on the Windows side that would entice me to shift my allegiance, and though I use Mr, Gates products (His OS X office suite is pretty damn impressive), If they went Windows-only I could easily spin off to better designed options (Mariner, Nisus, etc.) but for the cross-compatibility issue the Gates hegemony forces upon all of us who interact at a business level. Steve may be a megalomaniac, and your assesment of him is probably mostly on the mark, but I firmly believe he wants to both set the standard AND empower those who feel as he does about the marriage of quality, function and style. He makes Apple build stuff that he would want to use. Fortunately, 6 million of us (who also happen to feel as Steve does about computing devices and product integration and quality and great design) have a company that builds stuff the way we'd build it if we could. Bill Gates couldn't care less about this stuff (nor should he have to), or US, and that's the point
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
The reason Macs are in more movies is because they do a lot of 'Product Placement' which is movie-speak for giving them away to the production companies et als so they show up in a shot in the movie. Oh yeah, and they're cooler...
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Bob's missing one big point: us

I bought my new iMac on monday because it offers substance and style available nowhere else. I also own and use a Cube at work (same deal). I also own a 1-month old iBook (same deal). I cannot find anything made by another computer maker that comes close to the standard Apple sets, and until I do, will remain a Mac hardware loyalist. I have not found another operating system that comes close to the standards OS 9.2 and OS X set, and ditto the above statement. I have not a found a software program available only on the Windows side that would entice me to shift my allegiance, and though I use Mr, Gates products (His OS X office suite is pretty damn impressive), If they went Windows-only I could easily spin off to better designed options (Mariner, Nisus, etc.) but for the cross-compatibility issue the Gates hegemony forces upon all of us who interact at a business level. Steve may be a megalomaniac, and your assesment of him is probably mostly on the mark, but I firmly believe he wants to both set the standard AND empower those who feel as he does about the marriage of quality, function and style. He makes Apple build stuff that he would want to use. Fortunately, 6 million of us (who also happen to feel as Steve does about computing devices and product integration and quality and great design) have a company that builds stuff the way we'd build it if we could. Bill Gates couldn't care less about this stuff (nor should he have to), or US, and that's the point
 

madamimadam

macrumors 65816
Jan 3, 2002
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Originally posted by sparkleytone
It's pretty damn funny to see the richest man in the world doing a preliminary interview whose subject is his prime competitor, and then that competitor decides that article won't ever be done.
I really don't understand why many see Apple as Microsofts "prime competitor". Microsoft sells software for the MacOS and is moving into that market. Microsofts prime competition would be a company that makes similar products to theirs on their home system.
 

udannlin

macrumors member
May 8, 2001
42
0
California
Re: what is really interesting...

Originally posted by sprescott1974
turn on any movie or tv show and people are always using macs.
Thats because thats a big marketing technique that Apple has dedicated on using. They have a department that does that as their primary task - Product placement in television and movies.

These people get paid for these placements. Not to mention that all the Video and Film editors use Mac's themselves.
 

udannlin

macrumors member
May 8, 2001
42
0
California
M$ vs. Apple

Linux is a bigger threat to M$ than Apple.

Sony is a bigger threat to Apple than M$.

Its not really about the companies they represent today. Maybe is was 25 years ago.

Today, its more about their public acceptance. Yes Windows has more market share than Mac OS and WinTel boxes sell better than PowerMacs and iMacs. Gates and Jobs are not playing in the same field. They have both won in the game they consciously chose to play.

Gates is the richest man in the world. Congratulations.

Jobs runs the coolest companies in the world. Congratulations.
 

AlphaTech

macrumors 601
Oct 4, 2001
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Natick, MA
might be related to this....

I have a question for my fellow Mac fiends.

There is a person at work that continually claims that m$ bailed out Apple those years back (pre Jobs I believe) when they gave Apple some money. I do not remember the specific, but I thought it was to make sure that m$ would continue to make the office products for the Mac. He seems to think it was more.

I hope that Apple is around many years after m$ is dead and buried.
 

madamimadam

macrumors 65816
Jan 3, 2002
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Re: might be related to this....

Originally posted by AlphaTech
There is a person at work that continually claims that m$ bailed out Apple those years back (pre Jobs I believe) when they gave Apple some money.
All I know is that Apple had far too much money to be "bailed out" by Apple and Microsoft did not give Apple money, there was a purchase of silent shares in the business.
 

AlphaTech

macrumors 601
Oct 4, 2001
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Natick, MA
Thank you... Do you happen to have any kind of percent?? I would love to be able to rub his nose in it at some point in the future.

He occasionally comments about his blue and white crashing (on his desk at work), but never has the time to either give me details or to work on it. I have a feeling it is his m$ aura that does it more then anything else.
 

Mike Gagne

macrumors member
Aug 14, 2001
31
0
Maui, Hawaii
Jobs and Gates

While comparing Jobs and Gates, step down a notch to the seconds in command Tevanian and Ballmer. Does it become easier to discern a flavor in the two companies? Is integrity more apparent? It seems as though we would like to judge the companies by the CEO when in reality they are made up of a large group of people who are the embodiment of the public face of the venture with the CEO setting the tone.....being a cheer leader if you will. Apple has a depth of integrity that is only hinted at by the quality of the people through the corporate chain of command while Microsoft to me appears to be be manufacturing its image through influence and power as the need arises. Products are products and both companies have their strong points but when I need to imagine a human behind the corporate facade make it Tevanian's over Ballmer's anyday and the same goes for Steve over Bill. Thanks for your ear...... Aloha
 

CHess

macrumors regular
Dec 13, 2001
121
1
San Francisco Bay Area
Re: might be related to this....

Originally posted by AlphaTech
I have a question for my fellow Mac fiends.

There is a person at work that continually claims that m$ bailed out Apple those years back (pre Jobs I believe) when they gave Apple some money. I do not remember the specific, but I thought it was to make sure that m$ would continue to make the office products for the Mac. He seems to think it was more.

I hope that Apple is around many years after m$ is dead and buried.
Alpha, I don't know the exact cash figure, but according to Steven Levy's book "Insanely Great", the money given to Apple was in the millions as a "licensing fee" in order to get Apple to drop it's complaints against Windows 95.

In this "settlement" initiated by Jobs, Gates entered into an agreement to continue developing Mac software. I believe the agreement expired sometime last year, and even so, we have Office v.X and Microsoft's statement that it will continue developing for the Mac as long as there's money in it.

I think your co-worker has a slightly skewed view of Gate's role in Apple's recovery.;)