Offensive not to Pledge Alegiance?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by iAlexG, Oct 27, 2009.

  1. iAlexG macrumors 6502

    iAlexG

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    Jun 15, 2009
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    Florida, Missing Britain.
    #1
    I just moved to the USA and joined high school. We have to stand and pledge alegiance every morning. I am English and don't agree with pledging alegiance to god and a country that won't even give me a visa even though our army has been fighting side by side for almost 100 years in various wars. The teacher I have for my first class finds it offensive that I refuse to pledge. What should I say? Is there some arguement I could pose?
     
  2. dukebound85 macrumors P6

    dukebound85

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    #2
    My thoughts:

    If you live here and are a citizen, you should pledge allegiance to our flag.
     
  3. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    Colorado
    #3
    I would explain it just the way you have here. Although, make sure that you are polite and respectful, don't be snippy and full of attitude, like your post here sounds like. At the very least you should stand as a sign of respect.
     
  4. SkyBell macrumors 604

    SkyBell

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    Texas, unfortunately.
    #4
    Who cares what she thinks? It's not law that you have to.
     
  5. snberk103 macrumors 603

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    #5
    If they live in the US, but aren't a citizen... then what? Your answer is a big ambiguous for the question. He/she can't get a visa, so isn't a citizen.
     
  6. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

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    #6
    Can always goosestep, raise your arm, and pledge allegiance to the Fuehrer. ;)
     
  7. thegoldenmackid macrumors 604

    thegoldenmackid

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    Location:
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    #7
    I will place my hands behind my back and face the flag out of respect. I feel that it's my way of showing respective. No one has ever said anything. I also will remove my camp, but I just don't feel a need to be overly patriotic, as this isn't in the PSRI - I'll stop there.
     
  8. MBPro825 macrumors member

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    Oct 4, 2009
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    #8
    We have someone who is of Canadian citizenship at my school, and they tell him to at least stand up and show respect for the flag, even if he will not pledge to it.
     
  9. eawmp1 macrumors 601

    eawmp1

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    FL
    #9
    1) You're in Clermont - high redneck potential
    2) Explain, that as a non US citizen, you would be betraying your country by pledging allegiance to the US flag. Ask if they would do the same if in your country. Stand, be quiet and respectful, but don't feel you need to (kind of the same as if you didn't want to join in a group prayer). In the US, even as a citizen, you have a RIGHT to not pledge allegiance to the flag if you do not wish to.
     
  10. GimmeSlack12 macrumors 603

    GimmeSlack12

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    #10
    You're not American, so I don't see what the big deal is.
    As for me, I'm not big on the whole "God" thing, but I state the allegiance because I am proud of my country.
     
  11. Don't panic macrumors 603

    Don't panic

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    #11
    if you are not a citizen, you should NOT pledge.
    It's certainly not offensive and it's ridiculous it is even mentioned.

    that of course doesn't mean that you should/can be disrespectful of the flag or of others that do pledge.

    if you were a citizen, it would/should be freely up to you to decide if you wanted to or not, but it is not a requirement by law.

    i think in some states you might need your parent's permission not to say it, but it still only applies to us citizen.
     
  12. iAlexG thread starter macrumors 6502

    iAlexG

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    Jun 15, 2009
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    Florida, Missing Britain.
    #12
    Ok i'll give it a go tomorrow if he says anything. And obviously I am always polite to my elders and peers since its how I have been brought up
     
  13. gilkisson macrumors 65816

    gilkisson

    #13
    Just stand quietly, and be patient... you will be vindicated when the subject of Western History comes around... and English Literature as well... just to name two subjects.
     
  14. yojitani macrumors 68000

    yojitani

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    #14
    I have US citizenship but don't 'pledge' (I'm not in school either). Depending on the company, I might stand though. I don't see how it's offensive though, especially since you aren't a citizen. How can you be here attending school without a visa?
     
  15. prodigee macrumors 6502a

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    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    #15
    While Bush was president (the last two years) I refused to stand and pledge to the flag because I did not believe in what our country is doing, if you don't want to stand you shouldn't have to. You aren't a citizen, you dont agree with the policies of the government so don't they can't punish you for it. And if your teacher says its offensive, ask him/her to sing God Save the Queen to a British flag.

    I was born in America, and lived in the same house my entire life so I am American through and through and have no issues with not standing up for the pledge, I actually find it ridiculous we have to do it everyday, there is no reason to do it.
     
  16. Dagless macrumors Core

    Dagless

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    #16
    So what's the whole pledging thing about? If a big bad war broke out would you have to fight, or would they do anything by you? Do you owe them anything, considering you came to the US on your own free will and had to pay to get there?

    If someone didn't stand up during our national anthem (which I don't always do myself) I wouldn't get upset by it.
    Personally (as a UK citizen, born and bred) from what I've seen of the Pledge of Allegiance it looks to be a completely outdated, exclusive mild form of propaganda that is seemingly enforced far too much for its own good.
     
  17. Ttownbeast macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    #17
    I don't rise for the pledge and I was born here, I abhor religious symbolism done in the name of a bipolar anthropomorphic ubercreature viewed by religious zealots as the perfect and good deity not that I don't believe that a real deity exists, but I don't believe man is the measure of all things by which it requires us.
     
  18. Tower-Union macrumors 6502

    Tower-Union

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    #18
    Well at least your first sentence was on topic. . . then you just went into a rant about religion :rolleyes:
     
  19. Ttownbeast macrumors 65816

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    May 10, 2009
    #19
    Sorry all the sudden I channeled the ghost of Dennis Miller...wait he's still alive isn't he? Oh crap where's my tinfoil hat!
     
  20. Tower-Union macrumors 6502

    Tower-Union

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    #20
    I thought that sounded a little smart for someone within the MR community ;)
     
  21. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    Location:
    Hartford, CT
    #21
    I don't find tradition for tradition sake to be all that appealing. I get that its to honor the country, but I see a flag and nothing more. I do my own thing to be patriotic, like volunteering. Taking part in ceremony just reminds me of church to be honest.

    That said, I do not mock others for pledging and I am never disrespectful while the pledge is ongoing, I just don't participate.

    Love me or hate me for it, I don't care.:eek:
     
  22. jav6454 macrumors P6

    jav6454

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    #22
    How are you even in here without a visa? BTW, British people don't require visas when you come in, just passports (British and other country citizens like France or Germany).

    Also, just tell your professor, you are not a US national and to be excused from saying it. I'm sure he/she will understand.
     
  23. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2004
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    #23
    I don't think he'll understand. Someone who would respond that way is likely one of those "America, love it or leave it!" type people.

    Don't say it and don't mention anything to him about it. If he wants to be offended, fine. It's not worth arguing over IMO.

    The entire premise of students saying the pledge is just silly. It's a holdover from the McCarthy era when we were all scared of the commies and saying the pledge was supposed to make them go away. It's ridiculous. There are other ways to show your patriotism besides reciting a pledge.

    Or, if you just want to piss your teacher off, you can recite the pledge while giving this salute ;)
    [​IMG]
     
  24. synth3tik macrumors 68040

    synth3tik

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    Oct 11, 2006
    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    #24
    The pledge of allegiance is only a grouping together of words. People who get all up in arms over the pledge need to pick their battles. IMHO it is more patriotic to question things then it is to shut up and just follow along.

    Back in grade school we were supposed to stand and pledge. Even then I figured it would be better to either start class, or let us play around.

    The only thing I learned while pledging was what totalitarianism is.

    No one should feel ashamed or less then others because of views on the pledge of allegiance, especially people who have recently come to the US.




    @yg17:
    Love the pic!
     
  25. gibbz macrumors 68030

    Joined:
    May 31, 2007
    #25
    I am a proud American and have been reciting the pledge since elementary school.

    However, it should be clear that the pledge is nothing more than a means to keep citizens in line starting from a young age under the guise of 'patriotism'. Actions define patriotism, not a string of words.
     

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