Officers may have shot Orlando club patrons

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by jkcerda, Jun 16, 2016.

  1. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #1
    http://www.wfaa.com/news/nation-now/officers-may-have-shot-orlando-club-patrons/243700448
    [​IMG]

    that does not look good.
     
  2. steve knight Suspended

    steve knight

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    #2
  3. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #3
    they spent 3 hours as hostages, so yes someone could have taken him out from the inside had they been armed.
     
  4. 617aircav Suspended

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    #4
    Why would anyone come to a night club armed?
     
  5. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #5
    Because shootings happen even in gun free zones?
     
  6. webbuzz macrumors 65816

    webbuzz

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    #6
    Your comment is as dumb as "Why can't the police shoot a knife out of someones hand" or "shoot the tires out"
     
  7. FieldingMellish Suspended

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    #7
    At that point, the police action also constituted a war zone.

    Collateral damage was probably unavoidable. Guns blazing 2 ways, easily hostages could gave gotten friendly fire.
     
  8. steve knight Suspended

    steve knight

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    #8
    Or they could have made it worse and the pros said so I will trust them over a gun packing short guy
     
  9. steve knight, Jun 16, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2016

    steve knight Suspended

    steve knight

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    #9
    Nope that's the attitude out there of gun advocates and the NRA that the good guy with a gun will take out the bad guy with a gun. Not that the good guy may miss and hit a bystander or two good guys may shoot each other or what other problems can happen. Amazing you never hear that from the NRA.
     
  10. mudslag macrumors regular

    mudslag

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    #10


    You haven't spent a lot of time at night clubs have you?
     
  11. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #11
    What "pros"?
     
  12. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

    MadeTheSwitch

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    #12
    You don't need a gun to take someone out. They could have rushed him enmasse like the 9/11 plane over Pennsylvania or even the other shooting in Orlando last weekend. They also had things like glasses, tables and chairs at their disposal and for whatever reason, they didn't use them.
     
  13. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #13
    Per the story the hostage situation happened in the restroom
     
  14. steve knight Suspended

    steve knight

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    #14
    Cops and the guy in your link that you conveniently forget about v
     
  15. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #15
    Link to YOUR claims
     
  16. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

    MadeTheSwitch

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    #16
    The gunman didn't enter the club through the wall of the restroom. He entered through the main room...you know, a place with chairs, tables, glasses, and all sorts of things.
     
  17. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #17
    Yes and I was chaos , most people have the flight mentality , it is possible some tried to defend themselves and failed. I don't have the time frame of how quickly they ended up with the hostages in the bathroom. I just know that negotiations lasted for around three hours
    --- Post Merged, Jun 16, 2016 ---
    http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box...ton-more-people-would-have-died-if-club-goers
    That's no expert. That's a class a moron
     
  18. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

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    #18
    I can tell you from experience. When I trained in an intense environment with lots of noise, low visibility, friendlies and foes scattered everywhere, and etc ........ it's a HUGE difference vs the average person going to a well lit, calm, and controlled range environment.

    The majority of gun owners don't have that type of training. The odds of the average gun carrier successfully shooting down the enemy in an intense environment such as a night club is very slim. There is a greater chance they will shoot an innocent person or give him/herself away to be shot down.

    I highly doubt most of those in that club actually knew if it was just one or multiple shooters. Now what if everyone was carrying? Would the first person to shoot at the enemy get shot by another gun carrier that thinks that person is the enemy? Domino effect anyone? Remember the type of environment we are talking about. I would hate to be in the middle, if a shooting jumped off in a small area full of gun carrying people.

    A gun could actually help if you are in a corner(literally and fugitively) and see the enemy approaching you. But that's a big "what if" and the situation has to be good to succeed. Again, not likely.
     
  19. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #19
    The fact that police officers may have fired rounds that ended up killing or injuring club patrons ought to give lie to the fantasy that armed civilians would have been able to avert or minimize this tragedy.

    The officers who responded to this incident had every advantage that a civilian, no matter how well armed or trained, simply would not have had.

    The officers who responded were not under the influence of alcohol. They were not entering the situation "surprised" by the sudden eruption of gunfire. They were wearing uniforms and tactical gear that clearly let them know who was part of their team. They had communications gear that connected them with their colleagues and with commanders on the outside who could apprise them of the larger situation. And they had the advantages of extensive professional training in tactical firearms use.

    And despite all this, at least one responding officer was struck by the perpetrator while exchanging gunfire. Saved only by fact he was wearing a ballistic armored helmet.

    How any rational person believes a civilian, wearing a t-shirt and jeans without any tactical intelligence of the situation. would been able to cooly and calmly engage and take down the shooter - simply boggles the mind.
     
  20. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #20
  21. nebo1ss macrumors 68030

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    #21
    Did you read the article you posted. There were armed off duty policy officers working in the club who tried to take him on. Chance of a civilian having any success pretty remote.

    But keep believing a good guy with a gun could stop these attacks.
     
  22. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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  23. FieldingMellish Suspended

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    #23

    I'd hazard a guess that much of the damage was done prior to police arriving. Someone armed in the room could have made a difference early on.
     
  24. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #24
    W/o a gun you are correct
     
  25. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

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