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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by joepunk, Nov 14, 2008.
And for christ's sake.
Here's the online letter.
This is like yesterday's news.
This letter was written to "non-practicing" Catholics, telling them they have to repent before coming back to church, because they voted for Barak. These are folks who aren't following the church anyways, so therefore already need to "repent".
As if the church would tell a few million folks to take a hike, if they decided to come back and pay their tithes...
If you disagree with with this, you should read up on Bob Jones "University", also in South Carolina. Spooky, 24/7/365.
This church should lose its tax exempt status.
All churches should lose their tax exempt status.
Pope Benedict said that anyone who believes in a woman's right to choose, and is a Catholic should consider themselves excommunicated from the Roman Catholic Church. There's nothing better than having a Pope tell me I'm going to Hell no matter what I do! The good thing is, all of my friends will be with me.
That's about 80% of Italians then. Nice try, Joseph Ratzinger.
ratzinger is one of the worst thing ever to happen to the catholic church.
do you have a source for that statement. i don't doubt it, i'd just like to read in context. thx
Here it is. I saw this on msnbc.com a few years ago but couldn't find the link, but Reuters still has it up:
And there's one of the biggest problems that I have. It's fine for Catholics to be against abortion and any other religion for that matter. But other religions, including Catholics at one point, used to believe that the soul enters the body with your first breath in which case until the baby is out of the womb, it has no soul.
Admittedly many religions have refined their views on this, but to try and make abortion illegal based on only your particular religion's views is wrong. Why not try to pass a law saying that people can't eat meat on Friday's between Ash Wednesday and Easter?
And why the hell can't someone be pro-choice and pro-life at the same time?
I don't like abortion, I'd never push for anyone I knew to have one, but I also realize that I shouldn't be able to force a woman through the physical and mental hardships of a pregnancy because of my personal views. I also realize that making abortion illegal will result in many illegal abortions that will not only risk the baby's health and life but they will also put the woman's health and life severely at risk (a view once vocalized by John McCain).
To me the answer lies in good comprehensive sex education and easy access to various redundant forms of birth control to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies. If we eliminate unwanted pregnancies abortions will only be used in cases where the health of the mother is severely at risk.
But as is typical with the bailouts and everything else, we try to stop the result, rarely do we ever try to address the root cause of the problem.
Let them keep making stupid statements. Let them. It just drives more supporters out of the church.
Agreed. What a scam.
Abortion has always been condemned by the Church. And it has been a cause of ex-communion since I have memory.
The ex-communion comes when you participate in an abortion or promote abortion. I wouldn't say voting for Obama is ex-communion, nor is it a sin. Tho, I think you'll find more Catholics voting for a conservative president than a liberal president.
Wouldn't this be to contradict yourself? I mean, how can you support one thing and be against it at the same time.
I can personally be against abortion but realize that my limitation in forcing my views onto other people is not something that should be pursued by the government and instead the underlying cause of unwanted pregnancy should be addressed in a realistic way. Instead of making the avenue of last resort illegal, lets educate and make available the means to prevent the cause.
One can be morally opposed to abortion, yet still have no problem with others making the decision for themselves, and for that decision to be legal.
We had a different perception of what pro-life and pro-choice is then. I take pro-life as to be against abortion, and pro-choice as to be in favor of abortion.
As for what you said I think it depends how you see abortion. If you see it as killing someone, then you obviously won't be irrelevant if someone else decides to practice an abortion. Not that I'll go and stop the person with force, but I'll still disapprove of what she/he is doing.
No, pro-choice is to be in favor of allowing women the freedom to make their own decisions.
You can certainly believe in a woman's right to choose while personally disagreeing with her choice.
THIS JUST IN: The same priest was just found behind the pews with a little boy.
And that's a huge problem with the whole debate.
The views aren't mutually exclusive and our goals as a society are the same. I just see outlawing abortion as leading to even more lives lost as desperate women seek dangerous and illegal procedures. Nobody likes getting an abortion (and if they do there are other issues that probably need addressing) and none of us who recognize that we cannot make decisions for other people when it comes to their bodies, are not out encouraging pregnant women to have abortions.
It seems more realistic in my opinion, to address the issue of unwanted pregnancy which should have more of an impact on eliminating abortion than outlawing the procedure.
Lol one of his first acts as pope was blessing ferraries or lambos,did you guys really expect him not to be a lunatic?
Then your perception isn't correct due to not understanding the meaning of words. Pro-life and pro-death would be two contrasting terms. "Life" and "death." But "life" and "choice" are not contrasting terms. "Choice" is an inclusive term which in this context, contains "life" and "death," the core contrasts. So yes, someone can be pro-life AND pro-choice. Pro-life is their personal choice... but still, part of a CHOICE, hence the belief in being able to choose such a perspective due to being pro-choice.
Amen brother! Sing it!
You might think that, but thinking it doesn't make it true:
54%-45% in favor of Obama.
Yet the United States is only a little percentage (I think around 6%) of the whole Catholic population.
It is difficult finding statistics for the rest of the world, but I could say, without fear of being wrong, that in Latin American countries most Catholics vote for conservative presidents.
Oh, worldwide... I have no idea. But then again, what's considered conservative in most of the rest of the world is still considered center-left in America, so that comparison may be impossible to draw any conclusions from.