Oliver Stone: Shocked at How the CIA is Treating Trump

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Morpheo, Jun 20, 2017.

  1. Morpheo macrumors 65816

    Morpheo

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2014
    Location:
    Paris/Montreal
    #1


    I've always loved Oliver Stone as a filmmaker, and also he has a very acute vision and perspective of the world and politics. His movies might not be "objective" in the true sense of the word, simply because as an artist, he has his opinions and tries to convey them through his movies, but never at the expense of his own integrity and honesty. At least that's my opinion, and he should be respected for that.

    About working with Trump on Wall Street: Money Never Sleeps: "it was interesting to work with him for that day - as an actor. ...He's still an actor". Sums up the character rather well!

    He's not a Trump supporter, he's not a Hillary supporter, but he seems to be wanting to look at all the facts, the actual facts, before forming an opinion, which is quite commendable in this day and age...

    I've watched the Putin Interviews, it's a very interesting piece, the key is imo to have an open mind - always.


    I'm far from a Trump supporter myself I think I've made that clear quite a few times on this forum ;), but seeking the truth, by asking questions, by having conversations is how a democracy should work. Alternate facts and unfounded assumptions will get us nowhere. The other day he was on Colbert and although I do like Colbert most of the time, it was disappointing, and silly actually to see how he desperately wanted to turn the discussion into a "Putin is evil" kind of thing by expecting Stone to say "negative" things about Putin. Stone was here talking about his own experience during the making of his documentary, in a honest and serious way, and Colbert was all "say something negative please, pleeeeeze!!" and making fun of him. I thought it was almost childish actually, and certainly counter-productive - you could see that Olvier Stone probably thought similarly as well.
     
  2. Rhonindk macrumors 68020

    Rhonindk

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2014
    Location:
    Bloom County: Meadow Party
    #2
    Cooly interesting. Stone is a rather "unique" individual in the strata he resides in.
    His take on the Left / Right, how it got there, why, and where it is going is rather refreshing.
    His take on Putin is enlightening. His take on the "it was Russia" brings back January and encouraged me to go back and reread the Russian assessment. Can't say I disagree with his stance.
    Overall - I think he raises some very interesting aspects.
     
  3. Morpheo thread starter macrumors 65816

    Morpheo

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2014
    Location:
    Paris/Montreal
    #3
    I agree 100%. He's always fascinating to listen to, whether it's about Viet Nam, JFK, Sowden, Russia or today's political climate. A very educated and smart man!
     
  4. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Location:
    All Your Memes Are Belong to US
    #4
    He's different along the lines of Jesse Ventura. I have nothing to say other than Platoon is one of my favorite movies.
     
  5. dogslobber macrumors 68020

    dogslobber

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2014
    Location:
    Apple Campus, Cupertino CA
    #5
    He's right about Russia not being a threat to the USA. They're an irrelevance, sort of like an unhappy France. Their military spend is smaller than Saudi Arabia so you have to ask yourself why doesn't the USA spend so much on military spending but can't treat our veterans in funded hospitals?
     
  6. Naaaaak macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2010
    #6
    It's almost like there is a state within the state –– like a group of unelected bureaucrats and officials running their own little fiefdoms, doing whatever gives them more power and influence.

    It's almost like this State is interconnected and sabotages anyone who tries to reign them in, using their acquired power and influence.

    Alas, I'm getting too Deep for some people to follow.
     
  7. Zenithal macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2009
    #7
    Interestingly enough, for decades he's been branded as a psycho liberal and anti-American. People appreciate him for his "what if" views. I like them, but I'm not about to support the guy blindsided. He's nutty on certain issues, of sound mind on others.
     
  8. PracticalMac macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    #8
    Thanks for sharing.

    Makes a lot of sense, and Putin is really focused on bettering Russia, some ways others object to.
    Challenges the statement Jefferson posed; is Russia better than it used to be?
     
  9. Zenithal macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2009
    #9
    Financially, they're better. Not like they were in the old days of the USSR, but getting there. The problem is the social function of their government, lack of skilled jobs, only now is there more emphasis on education. It sounds silly, but a good deal of their population is still reeling from the collapse of the Soviet Union. At the end of the union's time, it created a massive power vacuum in certain countries. Terrible all around.
     
  10. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Location:
    The Misty Mountains
    #10
    You said nothing about Trump and the CIA, your thread title.
     
  11. Morpheo thread starter macrumors 65816

    Morpheo

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2014
    Location:
    Paris/Montreal
    #11
    Well my thread title refers to Oliver Stone's statement, not mine. What I wanted to share was his view, not mine. Stone is often labeled as "unpatriotic" and all. *I* think on the contrary that he's proud of his country and because of that, he doesn't shy from asking questions or having conversations that people usually don't want to have. Also my first post, I guess, would suggest that I agree with him. I think Trump is innocent until proven guilty, but he doesn't look particularly innocent either. If there's no wrongdoing from him, then fine. Does that mean I suddenly find Trump a "good guy" and a good President whose top priority is America's best interests? Certainly not. Trump's top priority is Trump. So if more clarification is needed on my part, yes I agree with Stone, I think we need to have all the evidence before making judgments. But at the same time Master Tweeter is not helping his cause!
     
  12. Night Spring macrumors G5

    Night Spring

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    #12
    Can someone kindly summarize what is said in this video? I'm hard of hearing, and the closed caption on this is rather garbled.
     
  13. Rhonindk macrumors 68020

    Rhonindk

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2014
    Location:
    Bloom County: Meadow Party
    #13
    Went back and did some looking and was surprised at the low level the Russian military is at. Then looking at their financial and the major impact oil has on their economy.
    Ouch.
     
  14. weckart macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2004
    #14
    Question is, would Russia be better had Putin not happened? No prizes for guessing what all of his neighbours would say.
     
  15. tshrimp macrumors 6502

    tshrimp

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2012
    #15
    I am in an area where watching a video right now is not a good idea, so would also appreciate a good summary. Maybe the thread title says it all. If so then this is no surprise. Trump has been dealing with more hate than anyone I have ever seen before.
     
  16. Morpheo, Jun 21, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2017

    Morpheo thread starter macrumors 65816

    Morpheo

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2014
    Location:
    Paris/Montreal
    #16
    There you go...... I hope I got everything right (not 100% sure about the corporate media part)!


    ..and voilà!
    That will be 500 bucks. I expect the funds in my paypal before midnight. K thanks bye.




    :D
    --- Post Merged, Jun 21, 2017 ---
    ...not a problem make that 1k then. Gotta pay the bills! ;):p
     
  17. Night Spring macrumors G5

    Night Spring

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    #17
    Thank you! I asked for a summary, and you gave me a complete transcript! I want to hug you and kiss you!

    Here's one buck, I'll owe you the other 499. :p
    [​IMG]

    Stone does have some provocative things to say, especially the part about the intelligence community needing an enemy to justify their existence, but he also seems a bit confused. I mean, how does Comey fit in? The thesis seems to be that the "deep state" intelligence community is anti-Trump and trying to pull his leg, but then there is Comey, whose actions helped get Trump elected.
     
  18. Morpheo thread starter macrumors 65816

    Morpheo

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2014
    Location:
    Paris/Montreal
    #18
    Well, when I saw your post, I just thought well, let's do this the right way! :)

    I think some things don't add up. But I keep wondering, if Trump is innoncent, why does he and those surrounding him keep insisting on looking so guilty? They never answer those questions (yes spicey that's you, among others), they don't recall, they have no recollection, etc, or they simply refuse to answer! I mean... And at the same time, there's still no conclusive evidence that Russia did interfere. The only shread evidence that we have so far is what a few persons have said - that's not evidence. But then Trump fires Comey over this "russia thing". Comey said under oath that there was no doubt. Ok. So what did they do? Who did it? How? And Trump's surreal conception of the presidency, his weird coal obsession, his false statements, his ignorance...(yes those are not related to Russia I know...) And Flynn, Kushner.... Yup, "some" things don't add up, but sometimes it's getting hard to understand who did what to whom, and why exactly... One thing for sure is that it's huge mess! Which is why I strongly agree with Oliver Stone when he says we need a thorough examination of what's going on...
     
  19. Night Spring macrumors G5

    Night Spring

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    #19
    We sure do. And we should keep an open mind, even on Putin.

    Senator Sheldon Whitehouse just made some remarks on "dark money" on the Senate floor, which was very interesting. He basically said that Russia may be channeling money into congress people,s election campaigns. I also keep seeing bits and pieces in the news about Trump's possible financial ties to Russia. There seems to be various parties investigating that, including the FBI, NY Attorney's Office, and various news organizations, especially MSNBC's Rachel Meadow, but no one has a comprehensive report on it yet.

    Then there's also the thing where, so Russia got Trump elected, but now what? Trump is so incompetent, he can't even get Obama's sanctions lifted, and I'm fairly sure an escalation in Syria isn't something Putin wanted -- or is it? Trump can't cooperate openly with Russia because that will just fuel the suspicion that he's Putin's puppet, but he's so unsubtle he's totally incapable of cooperating covertly.
     
  20. Rhonindk macrumors 68020

    Rhonindk

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2014
    Location:
    Bloom County: Meadow Party
    #20
    Personally, I see the Trump Russia mess as a well dangled Orange Tinted Red Herring.
     
  21. rjohnstone macrumors 68040

    rjohnstone

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2007
    Location:
    PHX, AZ.
    #21
    I still don't believe he's cooperating in any way. Never have.
    Maybe some of his surrogates are doing it without his knowledge, which I believe is entirely possible.

    Trump just approved new sanctions against Russia over Ukraine, which led to Russia canceling upcoming talks.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/20/world/europe/united-states-sanctions-russia-ukraine.html
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jun/21/russia-cancels-us-talks-ukraine-sanctions
     
  22. HEK macrumors 68030

    HEK

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2013
    #22
    I've always thought his stance and view on history brought up very interesting points. Very interesting to view the entire series the untold story of American history.

    When both right and left rail against him, makes me think he is on to something. Certainly the military industrial complex and further the agenda of nations regarding empire, colonial exploitation, and unbridled capitalism are points to explore.

    Propaganda, especially propaganda voiced by winning nations is insidious in pushing agendas. It dismays me no end when in later years so many of the reasons the US takes certain actions turn out to be lies, misrepresentations. I speak of things like missile gap, bomber gap, during Cold War, WMDs and atrocities during gulf wars. It's more like we find or make up excuses to act like we want to, rather than act on facts.
     
  23. Rhonindk macrumors 68020

    Rhonindk

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2014
    Location:
    Bloom County: Meadow Party
    #23
    History is written by the winners. Or pop culture.
     
  24. HEK macrumors 68030

    HEK

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2013
    #24
    That dooms us to repeat history, as you can't learn much from whitewashing the truth.
     

Share This Page